Why can’t it be both? Too many people think that nuanced movies can’t be fun. It’s even dumber when they think a movie must not be nuanced just because it is fun. (Like anyone who talks about super hero movies like the entire genre is one bad movie.)
Context is key. Depends on what the movie is trying to be
I still think the best ones are the ones that aim for one side of the scale, but end up on the other while still being good movies.
First one that comes to mind to me for that is Cabin in the Woods
thats horrifying, how do i get them out?
I’m the first when watching an american political movie, i’m the second when watching a dumb horror movie.
I love all the movies
I sit there with my Film & TV degree in my hand and smile and go “Oh my gosh, good job! Making movies is hard, don’t I know, but you did so well! And making mistakes is ok too!”
EDIT: Gotta admit, I do hate a poorly scripted $200-million superhero movie though, cause those are just soulless cash grabs. Anything else is great though. As long as it’s from the heart, I love it.
It’s perfectly possible to enjoy chewing gum for the brain even though one gets no nutritional value from it.
you sound like a menace to polite Christian society, sir.
Your gum chewing shall corrupt the children and women, and lead weak men astray.
Depends what the movie was trying to accomplish.
It’s all about intent.
If a film is trying to be a pseudo-intellectual fuck-fest and fails to do so it should be called out on it. Shutter Island I think tries it and fails. It’s like Scorsese saw Memento, thought “I can do that”, but he couldn’t.
If a film is just dumb fun like M3GAN, then that’s OK. More than fine. The worst thing you can do there is be boring. Michael Bay made robots fighting boring. Colin Trevorrow made dinosaurs boring. If you’re going to be dumb then at least be fun.
Hell, even Tron Ares is OK if you go into it expecting a two hour long music video. If you go into it expecting good acting, a script, a story, or anything other than Trent Reznor assaulting your eardrums to a light show, you’re going to be disappointed.
Yes thank you, that’s what I have tried to explain to so many people. It’s all about intent.
I love your use of Shutter Island as an exemple of a movie that tried too hard to be smart and mindbinding (even though I am usually a Scorsese fanboy). I felt a similar way about Inception. In comparison, Coherence surpassed both those movies in that regard with a budget of only 50k$.
However, in a completely different line, I loved John Wick because it was just about a guy going all berzerk at people that killed his dog. It was not trying to do anything else than being about people shooting at each other, but it was directed so well that I was hooked from the get-go.
You know what film failed to challenge even a second grade understanding of anything? Blues Brothers. You know what film really nails being two solid hours of entertainment? Blues Brothers.
At no point in either movie do you ever wonder what is going to happen to the protagonist, how they’re going to get out of a predicament, or think about the world we live in. Even if you wanted to, you wouldn’t, because you’re jamming out to Aretha Franklin absolutely killing it.
I love dark introspective movies with layers of nuance that make me stare in to infinity for a while had thinking about what I saw. I also love dumb fun entertainment. There’s a wide gap between those two extremes where quality just falls in to a mediocre valley of boring. And right at the middle there’s another peak where truly rare films manage to strike a balance between stupid fun and introspective. It’s like horseshoes, close counts because you almost never hit the peg. Mandy comes to mind. So does the first Iron Man.
I apply both of these to all movies in tandem. A movie can be both “enjoyable to watch” and “having artistic merit” to varying degrees.
I really dislike when critics and audiences are unable to separate them. There are real, professional critics who seem to only judge movies by how much they enjoyed them, and I think that’s fucked because they laud a lot of “bad” movies. Then there’s others who seem to care exclusively about the perceived level of artistry - and usually they only like movies with a narrow range of themes and tones.
I recently watched a movie that was absolutely excellent, a masterclass in telling a story without having an overt plot and use of symbolism and behavioral patterns and changes to depict a deeply human situation. Did I have fun? No, it was uncomfortable as hell as it’s the story of a relationship in which both parties are bad for each other with one pushing for more and more and the other increasingly pulling back and not into it. It reminded me of many of my worst insecurities and my worst relationships, especially those with people with bpd that wasn’t under control.
Movie is the Duke of Burgundy if anyone is interested, cw bugs and bdsm.
And I think it’s worth comparing it to another movie recently shown to me by the same friend: Tokyo Godfathers. It’s a fun and artistically valuable movie, and while it’s often uncomfortable, it has points to its discomfort whether in the form of social commentary or to enable the characters to grow. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a better depiction of the type of homeless people who are neither transiently homeless nor severely mentally ill. It’s also an interesting insight into Christianity and Christian symbolism in Japanese culture. It’s ultimately about how even fuck ups who’ve crashed out of society have goodness in them. And it manages to be fun and exciting the entire time. I highly recommend it
is your friend single and hot?
Idk how she manages the time and energy for the number of partners she already has
oh, so she’s poly?
I’m gonna need you to take about 20% off there squirrely dan
I’m mostly the beanie type.
I’m there to have a good time and they almost have to work at it to make me hate it.
1 - I hated it, and I want my time back
2 - I’m glad that it was made, it cohesively finished the story, and I have closure
3 - nothing special, kept me occupied for 1-2 hours, cool
4 - It was a good watch, had some neat hook, If someone hadn’t seen it and asked, i’d be ok with watching it with them
5 - I would totally watch this again and recommend it to my friends
Almost everything to me is 3.
Tenet with passible audio: 3
Game of Thrones Ending: 1
Stranger Things Season 5 ending: 3
Wheel of Time: 4
These are unironically my two simultaneous reactions to Marty Supreme
Incorporating both is the better perspective. Don’t let examining media critically stop you from liking what you like.
The same goes the other way around: don’t let your enjoyment of something stop you from examining it critically, or, worse, (try to) stop others from doing so - which happens quite often, unfortunately.
The number of times I have expressed criticism at movies and people were lashing out at me for pointing out those shortcomings. I never said I did not like the movie, just that it was not a masterpiece. For some people a movie is either good or bad, and if you point out some criticism, then you did not like it and you are wrong for it.
Being critical of a film is actually just having a critical opinion about it.
Sharing that opinion with others is something else: a way of deriving personal enjoyment or satisfaction from one’s critical position through sharing it with others.
As with everything else that requires multiple people, somebody deriving their enjoyment of something through others is absolutelly fine if said others are also doing so or at least if don’t really care either way, but not fine if one is negativelly affecting the enjoyment of others to get some enjoyment oneself.
So if you’re critical of something whilst somebody else is not and indulge your need to “share it with them right then and there” in a way that impedes their own enjoyment, then you’re being selfish and if you have even the slightest shred of consideration for others you should at the very least shut up until after they are done with their own enjoyment.
(That said, an after-film discussion between two people with opposite opinions about good it was can be thoroughly enjoyable for both. Ultimatelly it depends on the people involved)
Saying anything other than quick, understandable jokes while watching movies or series is an asshole move.
Afterwards? No, go nuts.
You don’t need my consent to write on a public forum that the movie I just blindly enjoyed is trash from start to end, I may even agree with you - the Star Wars prequels were a personal favorite of mine when I was a youngling.As with everything, it real boils down to how pushy one is in their criticism.
If somebody who loved the thing goes looking for the opinion of others and finds critical opinions, well, though luck for them - they went looking for it and nobody else posting in what’s a public forum has any moral obligation from refraining to post a negative opinion, IMHO.
If however one is being relentlessy critical mid-film after the other person has made it clear that they don’t want to hear it, that’s being a selfish asshole in my view.
Had a friend say this exact thing recently, completely baffled me. I didn’t like the movie we watched and was pointing things out, he was agreeing with most of it until he said something like: “yeah but overall I enjoyed the movie so I shouldn’t complain about it.”
I used to be a huge turd for years thinking “these plebians liking will Farrell movies are so dumb, it’s a horrible movie with no plot”.
Turns out you can enjoy two different things completely fine in life. I was just being an arrogant fuckwit
Edit: I confused Farrell with Ferrell, sorry. In Bruges is one of my all time favs, lol.
Original: I still find all the roles he plays completely insufferable. If I stumble upon a movie and find out he is in it, he probably has non-negligible screen time, and that’s almost a no for the movie.
This is valid but I still hate watching Elf
Totally agree but I don’t find stupid movies ‘fun’.
There are movies that are purposefully wacky, nonsensical, not scientific or just silly and I can’t enjoy them. Snowpiercer is a great example. This movie made 0 sense but it wasn’t trying to be a proper sci-fi. I was about the message and it was nicely delivered.
Then you have movies that are trying to be smart and failing badly like for example Interstellar. It’s a “smart” movie for not so smart people. I hate those.
And then you have purely stupid movies like all the Marverls, fast and furious and so on. Nothing makes sense but everyone pretends it does. If you are able to turn off thinking for couple hours and enjoy it - good for you. I can’t.
Honestly, I like Interstellar for its depictions of the failings of humans, more than for its depictions of scientific ideas.
But maybe that’s because I am already more science-minded and expect mainstream movie science to be garbage.
Gourmet vs Gourmand
Life’s better when you can enjoy complex things for their complexity and simple things for their simplicity =)
Bingo. I always try to think “What is it trying to be and can I take enjoyment from that?”
I’ll even enjoy a “bad” movie if it seems like everyone involved was having a blast making it. I just shift my perspective to “What if this were my friends from highschool showing me a movie they made?” and I end up being a lot less judgy.
Life’s too short to be too picky to be entertained.
