Want to wade into the snowy surf of the abyss? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid.

Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned so many ā€œesotericā€ right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged ā€œculture criticsā€ who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)

Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)

  • blakestacey@awful.systems
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    10
    Ā·
    7 days ago

    Mathematicians: [challenge promptfondlers with a fair set of problems]

    OpenAI: [breaks the test protocol, whines]

    We will aim to publish more information next week, but as I noted above, this was a quite chaotic sprint (you caught us by surprise! please give us time to prepare next time!). We will not be able to gather all the transcripts as they are quite scattered.

    Some of the prompts included guidance to iterate on its previous work…

    • blakestacey@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      Ā·
      6 days ago

      First of all, like, if you can’t keep track of your transcripts, just how fucking incompetent are you?

      Second, I would actually be interested in a problem set where the problems can’t be solved. What happens if one prompts the chatbot with a conjecture that is plausible but false? We cannot understand the effect of this technology upon mathematics without understanding the cost of mathematical sycophancy. (I will not be running that test myself, on the ā€œmeth: not even onceā€ principle.)

      • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        Ā·
        6 days ago

        I would go so far as to try and find a suitably precocious undergrad to run the test that they themselves are capable of guiding and nudging the model the way OpenAI’s team did but not of determining on their own that the conjecture in question is false. OpenAI’s results here needed a fair bit of cajoling and guidance, and without that I can only assume it would give the same kind of non-answer regardless of whether the question is in fact solvable.

        • BigMuffN69@awful.systems
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          Ā·
          6 days ago

          AcerFur (who is quoted in the article) tried them himself and said he got similar answers with a couple guiding prompts on gpt 5.3 and that he was ā€œdisappointedā€

          That said, AcerFur is kind of the goat at this kind of thing 🦊==🐐

    • lagrangeinterpolator@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      Ā·
      edit-2
      7 days ago

      I thought I was sticking my neck out when I said that OpenAI was faking their claims in math, such as with the whole International Math Olympiad gold medal incident. Even many of my peers in my field are starting to become receptive to all of these rumors about how AI is supposedly getting good at math. Sometimes I wonder if I’m going crazy and sticking my head in the sand.

      All I can really do is to remember that AI developers are bad faith (and scientists are actually bad at dealing with bad faith tactics like flooding the zone with bullshit). If the boy has cried wolf 10 times already, pardon me if I just ignore him entirely when he does it for the 11th time.

      I would not underestimate how much OpenAI and friends would go out of their way to cheat on math benchmarks. In the techbro sphere, math is placed on a pedestal to the point where Math = Intelligence.

      • blakestacey@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        Ā·
        6 days ago

        Presuming that they are all liars and cheaters is both contrary to the instincts of a scientist and entirely warranted by the empirical evidence.

    • BigMuffN69@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      Ā·
      7 days ago

      This was a very nice problem set. Some were minor alterations to thms in literature but ranged up to problems that were quite involved. It appears that OAI got about 5 (possibly 6) of them but even then, this was accomplished with expert feedback to the model, which is quite different from the models just 1 shotting them on their own.

      But I think this is what makes it so well done! A 0/10 or a 10/10 ofc gives very little info, a middling score that they admit they put a shit ton of effort into and tried to coax the right answers out of the models via hints says a lot about how much these systems can currently help prove lemmata.

      Side note: I asked a FB friend of mine at one of the math + ai startups if they attempted the problems and he said ā€œthey had more pressing issues this week they couldnt be pulled away fromā€ (no comment, :P I want to stay friends with them)

      The lack of similar attempts being released by big companies like Google or Anth or X also should be a big red flag that their attempts were not up to snuff of even attempting.

      • YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        Ā·
        5 days ago

        I found the comment about models creating very old-fashioned ā€œ18th century styleā€ proofs very interesting. Not surprising in retrospect since older proofs are going to be reproduced more across the training data compared to newer ones, but it’s still interesting to note and indicative of the reproduction that these things are doing.

  • mirrorwitch@awful.systems
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    11
    Ā·
    7 days ago

    Ars Technica published a story about that nonsense of a github bot ā€œpostingā€ on its ā€œblogā€ about human developers having rejected its ā€œcontributionsā€ to matplotlib.

    Ars Technica quote developer Scott Shambaugh extensively, like:

    ā€œAs autonomous systems become more common, the boundary between human intent and machine output will grow harder to trace,ā€ Shambaugh wrote. ā€œCommunities built on trust and volunteer effort will need tools and norms to address that reality.ā€

    If you find that to be long-winded inanity, yep, you guessed it: Shambaugh never said that, the Ars Technica article itself is random chatbot output, and his ā€œquotesā€ are all made up.

    https://infosec.exchange/@mttaggart/116065340523529645

    Ars Technica has removed the article, but mittaggart (linked above) saved a copy: https://mttaggart.neocities.org/ars-whoopsie

    • Soyweiser@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      Ā·
      6 days ago

      MiƩville

      I hope people are aware of the allegations against him, and how he managed to get them all scrubbed from the internet.

        • Soyweiser@awful.systems
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          Ā·
          6 days ago

          Yeah, but it is odd, as he managed to scrub all the accusations, which is quite rare for somebody to manage.

          Unrelated to that im always reminded of how I didnt like Perdido Street Station, has a few interesting ideas and so much that doesnt work (and a very unlikeable main character).

    • sansruse@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      Ā·
      6 days ago

      i expected alastair reynolds to look different but i’m not sure what i actually expected him to look like

    • Soyweiser@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      Ā·
      6 days ago

      Wait, the argument is partially women being childless are driven insane? Good to see the return of kings authors found new work blogging for LW.

    • corbin@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      Ā·
      7 days ago

      And now the punchline: this depersonalisation, the weird relationship to their bodily existence, inability to enjoy things and an internal void that people constantly try and fill with what they’re told they should want… all of these things are [—]

      — symptoms of self-estrangement, part of the Marxist theory of alienation. Capitalism causes us to be separated from ourselves. Gender dysphoria is a special case borne from capitalism’s desire to spite biology and nature by forcing us to be exploitable baby factories.

  • mirrorwitch@awful.systems
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    25
    Ā·
    edit-2
    9 days ago

    Today in Seems Legit News:

    ā€œAs a concrete example, an engineer at Spotify on their morning commute from Slack on their cell phone can tell Claude to fix a bug or add a new feature to the iOS app,ā€ Sƶderstrƶm said. ā€œAnd once Claude finishes that work, the engineer then gets a new version of the app, pushed to them on Slack on their phone, so that he can then merge it to production, all before they even arrive at the office.ā€

    • why is engineer working before contracted time
    • if engineer can do everything by cellphone why does engineer have to commute in the first place
    • if Claude can do everything anyway why do you still have engineers at all
    • if ā€œno engineer has written a line of code since Decemberā€, when are your lowering your subscription prices Spotify
    • why is hypothetical engineer a ā€œheā€, Spotify
    • do you often merge Claude code to production without even a review, Spotify
    • in unrelated news, Anna’s Archive has socialised Spotify metadata and 6TB of music, Gods bless them https://torrentfreak.com/annas-archive-quietly-releases-millions-of-spotify-tracks-despite-legal-pushback/
    • though I won’t do anything with that as I assume everything from Spotify is ā€œAIā€ ā€œmusicā€ anyway and I listen to my bands either from bandcamp, soulseek, or just downloaded from youtube videos uploaded over 10 years ago
    • nightsky@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      Ā·
      11 days ago

      Even if you’ve never heard of him before and know nothing else about him… this short tweet alone tells so much about what kind of person he is.

    • lurker@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      Ā·
      11 days ago

      in follow-up posts he talks about how he’s broadly in favour of job automation, but has doubts our current government would be able to do that without fucking everyone over, he specified that ā€œif it were a 1950’s government and congress I’d be more hopefulā€

      …so instead of proposing a solution like ā€œprotest against thisā€ or ā€œvote people in power who actually are responsibleā€ he jumps to ā€œyour daughter should give up her career and become a sex worker for AI company shareholdersā€

      with the Epstein shitstorm still raging, I would not be saying a damn thing about young women being sex workers for rich and powerful dudes

      • blakestacey@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        Ā·
        11 days ago

        The idea that a government from the actual McCarthy Era would be adept at handling an organized labor response to massive upheaval in the job market is… what’s the superlative of ā€œlolzā€?

    • Soyweiser@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      Ā·
      11 days ago

      Interesting first job your mind goes to there Yud. Might spend a little bit less time around people who regularly use the word goon but who never talk about the mob.

      • swlabr@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        Ā·
        11 days ago

        It’s his alt for people who want more yud spam, hence ā€œall the yud.ā€ From his twitter bio:

        This is my serious low-volume account. Follow @allTheYud for the rest.

  • Sailor Sega Saturn@awful.systems
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    Ā·
    13 days ago

    Elon Musk pivots from mars colony tweets to moon colony tweets (xcancel).

    I’m not quite clear on what ā€œself-growingā€ means here given how inhospitable the moon is.

    • Soyweiser@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      Ā·
      13 days ago

      Self growing like a video game, for example a colony in eu4, initially it costs a lot of gold per month to keep sending colonists, and when you reach 100% growth it becomes a full province on which you can build things.

      If only more journalists go: ā€˜we don’t know what this means either, and when we asked him he started shouting slurs at us’.

      given how inhospitable the moon is.

      You could even say she is a harsh mistress.

      • V0ldek@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        Ā·
        12 days ago

        Given it’s the Moon a better comparison would be a Greenland colony in EU5 where it costs gold initially and then costs your precious sanity, as you are doomed to ship tonnes and tonnes of food and materials there for centuries because there is nothing fucking there and the whole endeavour was a huge mistake.

        • Soyweiser@awful.systems
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          Ā·
          12 days ago

          Have not done eu5 so didnt know they improved the system. But indeed.

          Not that it matters for the pro let billionaires colonize space crowd. As some thing some thing ai robots are magic. See also how they are planning datacenters in space, and dont think there is a real solution for the whole ā€˜what if you need to flip a switch or replace a fan’ problem.

          • V0ldek@awful.systems
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            13
            Ā·
            12 days ago

            The moment I’ve learnt chuds like Musk and Sammy Boi treat the speed of light as just a thing that they can solve with sufficient computational power I started treating all their claims like a 5yo talking shit. It’s really all you need to know about them.

            • gerikson@awful.systems
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              10
              Ā·
              12 days ago

              wasn’t Musk financing people who were gonna ā€œhack the simulationā€ at one point?

              • Soyweiser@awful.systems
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                6
                Ā·
                edit-2
                11 days ago

                Iirc he even claimed he thought at times the world was a simulation made just for him. Im starting to think he isn’t in a healthy place mentally.

                E: ow god he thinks you can cool things in space, because vacuum.

    • gerikson@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      Ā·
      13 days ago

      If you accept the imho insane idea that a Mars colony is worth building, using Luna as a stepping stone makes sense. You can debug a lot of issues with recycling, growing food, low gravity, slow resupply etc. with a faster feedback loop.

      self-growing

      the virile space men will have plenty of nubile females to pump out babies

      • rook@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        Ā·
        13 days ago

        Weirdly, the moon might actually be more hostile that mars… the dust is sharper, the gravity is lower, the radiation is worse, the nights are longer and colder, there’s less water…

        It is a much cheaper and quicker means of murdering a bunch of astronauts though, so it does have that going for it.

      • froztbyte@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        Ā·
        13 days ago

        If you accept the imho insane idea that a Mars colony is worth building, using Luna as a stepping stone makes sense. You can debug a lot of issues with recycling, growing food, low gravity, slow resupply etc. with a faster feedback loop.

        as usual, felon just has no imagination and is basing his silly plan straight off any number of scifi books. but some dipshit stan is of going to ecstatically praise him for this ā€œrevolutionaryā€ ā€œforward-thinkingā€ idea

      • flere-imsaho@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        Ā·
        13 days ago

        the virile space men will have

        i’ve heard they like to read sf, they might want to read heinlein’s luna stories and miss the point entirely

      • ShakingMyHead@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        Ā·
        11 days ago

        You could also technically do all of that debugging before you even get to the moon, though. Also has the added benefit of not dying if something goes awry.

    • Jasper@mastodon.pointless.net
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      Ā·
      11 days ago

      @BlueMonday1984 @sailor_sega_saturn One of the ā€œOld Dreamsā€ is self replication lunar factories - you land a small robotic factory on the moon, it makes copies of itself, those copies make copies, exponential growth, then the factories make a maglev launch system and then they make and launch a massive number of solar panels, and now you do space based solar power and beam the power to earth. Kept growing and building, and you have massive amounts of energy per human on earth with 0 pollution…

  • flere-imsaho@awful.systems
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    Ā·
    13 days ago

    here’s another very good take from baldur bjarnason, answering the question if he had hardened his stance against LLMs.

    (the answer is ā€œnot exactlyā€, and you want to read the whole thing, because the answer itself is the least interesting part of the essay.)

    • BlueMonday1984@awful.systemsOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      Ā·
      13 days ago

      The whole thing’s worth reading, but this snippet in particular deserves attention:

      Tech companies have done everything they can to maximise the potential harms of generative models because in doing so they think they’re maximising their own personal benefit.

  • gerikson@awful.systems
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    Ā·
    8 days ago

    Show me someone who admittedly seems to know a lot about Japan, but not so much about East Germany:

    But the most efficient of these measures were probably easier to implement in the recently post-totalitarian East Germany, with its still-docile population accustomed to state directives, than in democratic Japan.

    https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/FreZTE9Bc7reNnap7/life-at-the-frontlines-of-demographic-collapse

    So… East Germany ceased to exist 35 years ago. Even if we accept that the people affected by the degrowth discussed in this article are the ones who grew up during the DDR regime, it doesn’t rhyme well with the fact that East German states are hotbeds for neo-Nazi parties, which by all accounts should be anathema to a population raised in a totalitarian state dominated by the Soviet Union.

    And if there’s a population almost stereotypically conformist to the common good over the private will, isn’t that the Japanese?

    I’m open to input on either side, I admit I don’t know too much about these issues.

    • fiat_lux@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      Ā·
      edit-2
      6 days ago

      I’m not convinced they know much about Japan either. The akiya banks are notoriously not updated regularly, and the sites which sell them to foreigners even less so. I couldn’t find that house in the bank but it appears to be now listed by an agent. Single storey, wooden, 50 years old, in a bit of a flood zone, not even a convenience store or supermarket within a mile’s walk.

      It’s true Japan has a lot of empty houses, estimates are around 10%. Japan also has a culture of somewhat continuously demolishing / rebuilding houses, which is understandable in an earthquake prone area. That house isn’t in the worst state for an akiya, but it clearly needs significant renovations, even before considering understandable earthquake anxiety and newer building standards (E g. steel frames) mean that houses like the one pictured aren’t exactly top choices to begin with.

      Also, the inheritance tax is a progressive tax, including a tax free threshold. 55% is the top tier and you need to be talking about literally millions of USD assessed value before that kicks in. Real estate is valued at less than fair market price for inheritance and gift tax purposes too. Even the most conservative internet article commenters in Japan will condemn people for avoiding their inheritance tax obligations.

      Also no, you won’t find wolves anymore in Japan, just fucking bears. The last year has been the worst in a while for bear attacks on humans, so I’m not sure the hypothetical deer population explosion is going to be a real concern. The robot wolves are scarecrows and were designed to look like wolves in the hopes of scaring off the bears, according to the link in the post itself.

      The whole thing reads like fiction with grains of ā€œfactā€ scattered throughout which hopes to avoid scrutiny by being a subject matter too dry and niche to be called out on.

  • fnix@awful.systems
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    Ā·
    10 days ago

    Rutger Bregman admits that he’s not sure what AGI actually is beyond vague utopian visions, but trivial questions aside, he’s sure it will revolutionize the world in 10 years.

    For those who haven’t heard of him, he’s a Dutch historian who achieved some fame for his book arguing for UBI and reduced work weeks, as well as his critique of rich people avoiding taxes and a segment on Tucker Carlson’s show where he openly challenged his politics. He has since seemingly turned 180 degrees and become a billionaire-backed effective altruist.

    • jaschop@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      Ā·
      10 days ago

      but I do know that what’s available now is just f*cking impressive - and it will only get better.

      Another victim of the proof-by-dopamine-hit fallacy it seems.

      It’s telling that the example he brings is that Claude can do pretty much decently what he was about to buy a 100$ voice controlled app for. As someone who aspires to the art of making great software, it’s so infuriating to see how non-techies were conditioned into accepting slopware by years of enshittification and price gouging. Who cares if the tech barely works right? So does most anything, right?

    • Soyweiser@awful.systems
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      Ā·
      10 days ago

      Yeah he is trying to build his own EA movement. He also wrote a book (which I have not read) which basically argues that people in general are good not evil actually. (Fair enough, but not relevant).

      Im still trying to meet him and shake is hand, the resulting matter antimatter explosion will take out the country.

      • saucerwizard@awful.systems
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        Ā·
        9 days ago

        But seriously, between the alcohol market being a complete shitshow now and overproduction of microdistilleries/breweries (the dieback is just starting here)…I think I picked a good moment to fall to pieces.

        Also it was only a matter of time before we lost airpod privileges tbh.