Vaccination should be made mandatory. Enough of this fucking “choice” shit. It’s called public health for a reason.
“I can give a family and I can give patients all the information that I feel like that they need in order to make decisions, but ultimately, it is the family’s choice and decision how to care for their child and how to proceed.”
- Amanda Jocelyn, nurse practitioner
I edited it a bit for clarity.
we need to put vaccines in food like they do for rabies and chuck little raccoon treats in the woods
there’s countries in Europe that have completely eradicated terrestrial rabies decades ago by vaxxing foxes this way, but i gotta admit that foxes are a lot more reasonable than chuds who think that being protected against diseases makes you a soyboy omega who needs to be culled
Having met some very cool foxes at a few conventions, I agree—they’re very lovely and accepting, and want to do their part to help.
It really is something when they say things like “I bet you’ve got all your booster shots” as a way to call you a cuck lmao
measlemaxxers mog meek medicos
The counterpoints being made in the replies below are very weak. But if someone had made a better argument, you could make this point more specific and say that vaccines should be mandetroy for participation in school, wrestling tournaments etc. Thats more how things have been implemented in the past and its pretty effective when consistently enforced. Then you get the problem with homeschooling, those people think they can evade vaccines in the same way they evade other positive social influences on their children. Which is why homeschooling should be banned too making vaccines effectively mandatory for all children.
campaigns including community involvement can make it all more diplomatic. But at the root it must be mandatory.
The counterpoints being made in the replies below are very weak
Now see I would argue that “Our entire globally accepted framework of medical ethics doesn’t look kindly on this specific thing” would be a valid point of view.
Recommended is usually good enough if the vast majority of people get the vaccines. You don’t need to create and manage a legal framework for mandatory vaccination if it’s a non-issue.
Since it is now clearly an issue in the US, it needs to be made mandatory…
A friend of mine grew up in USSR said that no child or adult would ever even consider declining vaccines. Everyone lined up for their injections when told, it was just not an optional thing at all. Now capitalism has brought in total chaos and the same people refusing vaccines for themselves and their families.
In the US there are other problems that should be addressed like (for one) how any dingdong can go around giving health advice and selling health-coded products, all kinds of claims, with only thinnest sheen of regulation. Better to apply a little pressure lots of ways than strong pressure only one way.
Problem is that the weakness is pervasive and difficult to dig out of a hole once you are in it.
We’re at the point of crisis now and it needs to become mandatory again. Not like “you get a fine” mandatory, but like “every town has a vaccination clinic set up and you get a date to go in” mandatory.
It would be a lot more efficient to just go to the schools. All the kids are there already. If a child is away on the day the vaccinators show up, they can’t return until they go to the clinic. Which should also be available of course. If parent/child doesn’t want the vaccines given in school, they can always attend clinic ahead of time.
Would minimize barriers like travel, having to take time off work etc. And could be scheduled strategically to prioritize the most at risk communities, e.g. those with existing cases or very low vaccination rates.
Vaccination should be made mandatory. Enough of this fucking “choice” shit. It’s called public health for a reason.
Declaration of Helsinki says no. We’ve got about 70 years of bioethics about why that’s a no go.
Although if we are going to violate the five principles, this might be the least bad way it’s been done.
I don’t care what some declaration says. The US is insane about vaccines (among other things) and all this “choice” idiocy needs to stop. It should have stopped years ago.
The lessons learned from involuntary psychiatric treatments and involuntary medical tests cannot be disregarded to own the chuds
involuntary psychiatric treatments and involuntary medical tests
We are not talking about people being guinea pigs or getting tortured or undergoing other horrors. Context matters. We are talking about jabs. That’s it. Jabs that take a moment. I’m sure there are highly complicated philosophical questions I am not considering. But you know what? I couldn’t give less of a fuck. The US is has gone way beyond the “break glass in case of emergency” point for vaccines and it gets worse all the time. Plus we are talking about jabs.
We are not talking about people being guinea pigs or getting tortured or undergoing other horrors
Yet. But we are talking about disregarding the lessons about the necessity of basic principles of autonomy in favor of “the greater good” and the
patriarchalpaternalistic idea that the doctor and medical community knows better than the patient themselves what they should have done to their bodies, the exact same things that motivated the horrors that led to the development of modern medical ethics.Context matters.
Yes, it does. It really does, and you are not taking it into account.
If we say that the state has a prima facie right to override the consent of the governed when it comes to their health, that is not merely a slippery slope, that is fully regressing and jumping down a hole we just got done climbing out of.
Do you trust the American government to make medical decisions for you? Do you think RFK and Doctor Oz should get a button that says “We can force people to do medical procedures”There are arguments to be made for and against any kind of compulsory healthcare, but you need to remember what you are proposing.
the patriarchal idea that the doctor and medical community knows better than the patient themselves
Extremely funny way to put it. Most people who suffer from being denied available vaccines are children who’s parents (including the daddy patriarchs) have made the decision on their behalf. Not patients who made such a decision on their own volition.
The real question is whether parents have the right to deprive their children of safe and effective medical care. This is functionally a “parent’s rights”, not “patient’s rights” issue. Parents rights being here as in other situations a euphamism for treating children as property without rights at all, for whom society ought have no ability or obligation to intervene when the parents do not wish it.
the exact same things that motivated the horrors that led to the development of modern medical ethics.
Instead of making these vague allusions the darkness of history, why not be more specific?
To narrow things down and avoid having to write a whole thesis, specifically relevant here are population based interventions of a discrete nature. That is, not ongoing like fluoridated water or iodized salt which are both medicines given slowly and consistently without informed consent, I guess you also disapprove of. And not things done to only a few people based on criteria like a diagnosis. And not efforts made in the name of research. But we are talking about known efficacious procedures done once or a few times per lifetime, that every single person has done, except a teeny tiny number who have a bona fide medical reason that they can’t have it.
Please show your historical examples of how proposing that every single child should benefit from standard vaccines is “the exact same things” as promoted the most recent developments in medical ethics.
fully regressing and jumping down a hole we just got done climbing out of.
Which hole is that?
Comparing iodised salt and mandatory medical interventions is absurd.
But no, i am against neither. And I am also not against a mandatory vaccination policy. But I find the glee with which you people will totally disregard any question of morality surrounding it, and the entire field of medical ethics worrying.
Instead of making these vague allusions the darkness of history, why not be more specific?
Because the list of medical interventions done with disregard for patient autonomy can, and do, fill books? The mandatory sterilisation of those deemed unfit parents in Scandivania, the nonconsensual medical procedures routinely performed on those deemed incompetent by virtue of disability all over the world, stipulating receiving social benefits on receiving medical procedures or taking specific medications.
Before that we had the enforced experimental treatment of the mentally ill, the medical experiments performed by duplicitous means on minorities or the poor, hysteria treatments, etc. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Extremely funny way to put it. Most people who suffer from being denied available vaccines are children who’s parents (including the daddy patriarchs) have made the decision on their behalf. Not patients who made such a decision on their own volition.
I actually meant to write paternalistic, but a wire got crossed somewhere. It works either way, since you zeroed in on it meaning the paternal role. The thing is that the doctor taking on a paternal, and usually patriarchal and domineering role, deciding what is right for the patient overriding their decision is in fact a very important critique of the beginnings of modern medicine. That is how you get doctors deciding to do further procedures on people they put in comas without asking, or test medications or procedures on uninformed patients. For more mundane examples, its why people hate their asshole doctor who won’t listen to them. The compliance model of medicine is outdated, it is taught specifically as an example of how you get bad results.
It is not just children who do not get vaccinated. We have people who have grown up unvaccinated who have children who will then also not get vaccinated, and if we make demands of a medical treatment they do not desire they may instead forego medical assistance entirely.
Now if you want to deal with the idea of a medical practitioner giving a willing child a vaccine that the parent does not wish them to get, that is an interesting ethical dilemma.
The problem is that law is class power, we can not allow the bourgeoisie to inject us with whatever they want. I’d trust a socialist country to mandate vaccines, but a capitalist country would use it as an opportunity to sterilize or experiment on people.
They fucking do it anyway dawg wtf are you on, just fucking vaccinate and protect people with disabilities
There’s a long history of people with disabilities being injected with random shit in the US before the Declaration of Helsinki. You shouldn’t ignore this history just because you’re rightfully angry at backwards anti-vax reactionaries.
hey fucking do it anyway dawg
No they don’t. Or at least insofar as they do, it is not accomplished the way being talked about. Queermunist is not being antivaxx by pointing out that the American government has a bad history when it comes to being empowered to disregard medical consent, and it is disingenuous to say so.
Get back to me when the US has cases of polio and then after that Americans relearn what an “iron lung” is.
Sure, and then we’ll relearn why we can’t let the current ruling class inject people with whatever they want: diseases, live cancer cells, radioactive elements, organic toxins, cow blood, whatever.
Which tests?
According to Wikipedia this is the current version. Here is how it starts:
The World Medical Association (WMA) has developed the Declaration of Helsinki as a statement of ethical principles for medical research involving human subjects, including research on identifiable human material and data.
every paragraph is specifically about research, experiments etc.
Vaccines are not research projects. The measles vaccine has existed for 50 years and been given in billions of doses. It has been studied from every angle there is no more experiments possible.
Your argument would be stronger if you argued using your local laws for assault or something. This is very irresponsible to try to conflate vaccines and experiments.
It is… not? The Helsinki declaration is the basis for medical ethics, medical school curricula are based around it. It is foundational to the concept of bioethics. You cannot open a book on medical ethics without its importance being stated.
We do not base bioethics and medical ethics around assault laws. You are rejecting established norms and frameworks and just inventing your own thing presuming that I am ignorant.
I did a web search for
medical ethics textbookand the top result excluding AI slop is Oxford Handbook of Medical Ethics and Law (2021). I found a copy online. Helsinki is mentioned exclusively in a 5 page chapter called “Medical Research”. Here is what I think is the couple pages which most strongly supports your argument:
It seems like it is really about research and not about population health interventions.
I also looked in Medical Ethics - Soft Skills for Clinical Care Providers (2025) since sounded reasonable. Mentions Helsinki on pages 13, 189 and 192. Much more briefly than the Oxford book. I tried to get a couple others but my downloads are failing.
Maybe you can suggest to me a different text that would explain it better. Demonstrate the foundational and relevant nature of this Helsinki protocol. Rather than as it appears to me which is one of many such documents (and not the most important) that contribute to the overall culture of medicine, particularly in the area of clinical research. Research and implementation being very different. I believe they ought to have different ethical considerations and while they are broadly related your repeated citing to a single document of very narrow and not-obviously-relevant scope is confusing. Seems to be over generalizing.
You are rejecting established norms and frameworks
Another very weird claim. Is advocating for mandatory vaccination really going against medical norms? I searched on pub med to find relevant literature, of which there is a great deal of it.
You can read this paper for details, Charting mandatory childhood vaccination policies worldwide, but here is an image that addresses my supposedly abnormal position:
All the orange places are the ones who have never heard of medical ethics according to you.
It turns out there was, in fact, a reason we effectively eradicated measles
the lady in the thumbnail looks very slightly like trevor moore and it made this headline into a fucking onion bit for a second
“Do you do a lot of measles?”
a fucking onion bit
I considered changing the thumbnail because it really does have that vibe.
“Shine on you crazy Mormons!”
White supremacists when they convince predominantly white people to increase their risk to deadly diseases because they’re bored.
350 might sound like a lot but that’s just one household in the Caliphate of Deseret
“In the cartoons I saw where characters got measles, it was never that bad and the characters always returned to the status quo at the end, so I thought that would happen for me too, but it’s not!”
Trevor Moore is alive and she’s on E
Recent exposures have been linked to large school events in January and February — including state wrestling championships at Utah Valley University
Charlie kirks neck spewed out measles as part of RFKs masterplan
Oh, for real?
