• KiraChats [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    this is my first comment here, just wanted to say that it’s so nice to find a corner of the internet where i can be an openly vegan communist and vibe with similar ppl. I’m so tired of tiptoeing around “based” carnists that go full chud once you eat a veggie burger in front of them or ask them to not be speciesist. sorry for the mushy comment but ty yall 😭

  • mustGo [any]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    the meme: “you’re just lazy, right?”
    the comments: “how dare you call me lazy, I actually enjoy hurting others”

      • wormer@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        “haha you’re vegan!!! I will eat twice as much meat!! haah” dude i just mentioned it cuz we’re going to dinner and it’s actually relevant…

    • 1simpletailer@startrek.website
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      1 year ago

      Honestly this thread is better then most, but I suspect Hexbear has a higher concentration of Vegans and people who support veganism. There’s been plenty of “Lol VEgAn BAd” post on the regular meme and shitposting lemmies, and they’re getting more popular with the influx of chuds from Reddit.

    • Maoo [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Hexbear reverts to liberalism when it doesn’t have regular struggle sessions.

      We’re gonna see Joe Biden harm reduction posts in about 6 months lol.

      • HornyOnMain [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Looking at it from your side it says there’s only 67 comments but on our side there’s 169, it’s probably because on hexbear when a comment gets removed by the mods it just deletes that comment but on mainstream Lemmy (like dbzero uses) every comment after the deleted comment is also deleted with it so because you’re not on hexbear almost two thirds of the comments are hidden for you

        • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 year ago

          Oh dang, would it require going through hexbear properly to see them or is it possible for an instance to change that behavior?

          • BelieveRevolt [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            If you want to see all the comments, you have to go through Hexbear, but you can just click the fediverse button under any post made by a user from our instance to do that easily

  • Babs [she/her]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    We don’t have enough edgy carnists comments in here so idk guess I would murder the pig or whatever, not like it has any feelings, and my momentary enjoyment of its taste is worth more than its life. I am a good leftist btw.

    • Cherufe [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Uhh my turn for edgy carnist comment

      Have you noticed how carnist kinda sounds like Carnotaurus and Carnotaurus are rad as hell?

      Gets hit by a meteor and dies 65 millions of years ago

    • Brak [they/them, e/em/eir]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      But, that does not mean that veganism is an invalid movement. Far from it. It simply means that the onus to become vegan is because it empowers a social movement that can end this horrific industry, rather than because of a individualistic consumer choice.

      This is why I have a hard time morally judging my friends and family for not being vegan, but are vegan myself. Veganism is a political position, and I treat it similarly to the people I care about being . I should correct them when I can, but they are not individually terrible people for having the wrong political opinions (and, to a degree, behavior).

      so much this!! it’s odd so many leftists don’t seem to understand it soviet-hmm

    • kristina [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      For this reason the only way we’re going to get out of this mess is a technological solution (or society collapses to the point that we forget about animal husbandry)

      But many vegans here have had very antisocialist views about how we must simply eat beans and need not improve food technology (re lab grown and plant meats, helping people with certain digestive disabilities) to increase adoption of veganism.

    • Ceres [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      I mostly agree but think its strange to dismiss the individual part of it. Although a social movement is the goal being worked towards, I feel its a bit harmful to state the goal as ‘global vegan movement’ instead of ‘stop exploiting animals’ because that difference provides wiggle room to do harmful things if you don’t expect it to affect the odds of the movement succeeding, which gets yourself thinking in unhelpful utilitarian terms. Easier to get intersectional-understanding benefits of connecting veganism to other issues, and be a better voice for that movement, when you’re an abolitionist vegan who doesn’t care if what you’re doing might not be worthwhile according to an arbitrary metric.

      The movement is of course the vitally necessary action to end the industry, but I’m also sick of carnist leftist friends excusing individual carnist actions because of it ‘not really changing things’, which I think is driving my thoughts here.

        • Ceres [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          I think I just couldn’t tell if you were suggesting ‘buying or not buying harmful products doesn’t make a difference’ to mean supporting carnist stuff is fine, cause it felt like an odd inclusion but I getcha now.

          But yeah I was, in response, arguing the importance of still considering consumption habits in your veganism, which comes from my mechanistic worldview thinking that everything has an affect on something, so what should instead be the limiting factor for these decisions is stuff like privilege (instead of util priorities), which ends up at the same stance as you (I think). Anxiety over my political alienation making me min-max my veganism lol.

  • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    can someone please explain why vegans are allowed to engage in sectarian gatekeeping? Anarchists and MLs are rightly prevented from fighting about who is and isn’t a real leftist, that should extend to vegan users not saying we’re not real leftists for eating meat or using animal products.

    • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Because the difference between anarchists and communists is one of strategy while the difference between vegans and bloodmouths is wanting to cause suffering for selfish reasons. It’s not sectarian.

      And no. If you’re not following your ethics to the ultimate conclusion and still have a strain of “I deserve the exploits of others suffering” in you, then you’re not actually a leftist.

          • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Behold the ideologically pure antinatalist clown that declares that no life should have ever existed in the past and none should exist in the future but in the mean time wants le epic bacon treats and no speed limits when big car go vroom vroom. 🤡

        • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Instead of grappling with the actual ethics of the thing we’re supposed to defer to these ethically flawless fully realized utopian projects? Next will you say it’s okay to be homophobic and a leftist because the communist projects of the 20th century can’t be criticized?

          The core of leftist beliefs that exploitation be abolished. Vegans are right.

          • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            It’s hard to argue with an ideologically pure antinatalist clown that declares that no life should have ever existed in the past and none should exist in the future but in the mean time wants le epic bacon treats and no speed limits when big car go vroom vroom. 🤡

            • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              anti-natalism is legitimately just the worst ideology out there. Just real shit-ass logic all the way down, and never sprung from coherent thoughts about consent or happiness.

              • wormer@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                can you explain why? my understanding is that you shouldn’t have kids if you can’t guarantee them a good life essentially.

        • Maoo [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Folks used the same argument here early on during trans struggle sessions and we correctly adopted the position that to be leftist your need to be pro-trans.

          Also we are obviously talking about current conditions.

            • Maoo [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Also yeah I’ll echo that you don’t seem to understand the very basics of what’s being discussed here so maybe you should ask yourself why you have such a strong reaction. If I were so ignorant, I would be asking questions or going to self-teach.

              Veganism is not about vegans being a marginalized group.

            • Floey@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Vegans are arguing about the oppression of animals, not themselves. Animals are being genocided, and in the most extreme way seen in history.

            • IzyaKatzmann [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              I think the idea is that the other creatures, like animals bred in captivity for their meat, are the ones which aren’t protected. Vegans don’t seem to speak for them (as say, a liberal might for a marginalized group while denying them their voice) rather use inductive reasoning to reflect contradictions in meat-eaters and their ethics in practice, particularly around ideas of self-oriented material interest.

              If we use genocide as the mass slaughter of any life (we’ll probably conveniently ignore microbes and only stick with multicellular life) rather than human life, animals bred for consumption (as well as those affected by humanity’s effect on the environment) are deliberately genocided and it’s done to some anticipation. The scale makes this far worse, other humans can be a meaningful threat and thus for the oppressor it is reasonable to eliminate them if their very existence poses a threat, as is the case in settler-colonial societies.

              I don’t know why you or others might treat non-human life differently than human life, and that is what I consider to be occurring. Feel free to disagree, I would be curious to read your thoughts as it’s not a perspective I would say I understand. Three reasons for my prior comment which come to mind are 1. anthropocentrism, 2. lack of empathy and 3. solipsism. For the second there is a relevant quote which I think captures this well:

              “In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”G. M. Gilbert

              If instead of ‘fellow men’ you put ‘fellow creature’ I think you might understand where some of the arguments come from. Don’t get me started on eugenics and how we are more or less perfecting it with plants and domesticated animals.

              • somename [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                “genocide as the mass slaughter of any life”

                This is both not what genocide is and it also trivializes actual genocides. You’re right to call this view anthropocentric, but I’m not going to say that animal life is a 1:1 equivalency with human life. Industrial farming is fucked up I agree, and should be ended. I also agree that veganism is a good thing, better than eating meat. But overall it is not the same thing, not at all.

                • Venus [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  'm not going to say that animal life is a 1:1 equivalency with human life.

                  Even if cows are worth 0.0001% of a human, animal agriculture is by far the worst genocide and indeed the worst crime ever committed on Earth.

          • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            I think we can be pro-vegan in the exact same way, encouraging and fostering vegan thought and talking points even if we don’t think they fit into our lives. We’re not that, but I’ve honestly thought a lot more about my relationship to meat and the ramifications of my diet due to vegan posters than I ever did before, like how trans posters made me think about my relationship with gender. There’s obviously a difference in that veganism has the ultimate goal of making everyone vegan, not all trans people want gender abolition, but if we can all think a little more vegan than we did yesterday I think that’s a good thing. More people are likely to become vegan if there’s an environment open to its discussion than if there isn’t. I’m genuinely thinking about it a bit rn, might have to do some research.

    • regularassbitch [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      can someone explain why rentoids are allowed to engage in sectarian gatekeeping? Anarchists and MLs are rightly prevented from fighting about who is and isn’t a real leftist, that should extend to rentoid users not saying we’re not real leftists for owning an apartment building we inherited from our grandparents.

      • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Those rent-seeking failsons did not know they would be born as rent-seeking failsons, and people economically coerced into renting didn’t have a choice either. Therefore rent-seeking is only as good or bad as being a renter until ideological purity can be attained with the unborn and their future destinies morshupls

    • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      can someone please explain why vegans are allowed to engage in sectarian gatekeeping?

      That’s rich coming from an ideologically pure antinatalist that contends that no one should have existed in the past and no one should exist in the future. What kind of leftist movement can even exist with that kind of clownishness? clown-to-clown-communication clown-to-clown-conversation

    • SixSidedUrsine [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Do you also need someone to explain to you why Patsoc’s don’t fall under the nonsectarian rule too? What about Va*shites? They’re real leftists, according to themselves, so not letting them run rampant here is just blatant sectarianism, you’re so right! The non-sectarianism rule should also extend to the Pro-Palestine gatekeeper users, always arrogantly telling Zionists that they’re not real leftists just because they support a racist apartheid state conducting genocide. This all makes perfect sense.