• Wirrvogel@feddit.deEnglish
    1402·
    1 年前

    Not so funny when it actually happens to you:

    Because of really bad experiences with alcoholics as a child, I am afraid of people who drink. My psychologist and my doctor wrote that down.

    When I became seriously ill and could no longer work in my old job, I had to retrain. To do this, you have to go to the German employment office and get an assessment of your strengths and weaknesses, including what your doctor and therapist have to say.

    They read the paper from my doctor and my psychologist, but just skimmed over the words and decided that because the word “alcoholic” was there, I must be the alcoholic. They told me that I could get paid retraining and benefits, but only if I attended a therapy group for alcoholics once a week - me, who is afraid of alcoholics because of the abuse I suffered as a child. … I immediately started crying and swore that I had no problem with alcohol, only with alcoholics!

    It took 6 months to get someone at the job centre to actually read the papers word for word to find out that me saying “I’m not an alcoholic” was not me being an alcoholic in denial. I got a half-assed apology and my retraining 6 months after I could have started it because of this. Not to mention that every time I refused to go to AA meetings they threatened to take away my benefits and I was in such a bad mental state that I probably would have killed myself without the help of my family. Oh, and my family who tried to intervene were labelled as co-alcoholics, holding me back.

        • explodicle@local106.comEnglish
          33·
          1 年前

          I assume they mean this?

          In the past, some critics have criticized 12-step programs as pseudoscientific and “a cult that relies on God as the mechanism of action”. Until recently, ethical and operational issues had prevented robust randomized controlled trials from being conducted comparing 12-step programs directly to other approaches. More recent studies employing randomized and blinded trials have shown 12-step programs provide similar benefit compared to motivational enhancement therapy (MET) and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), and were more effective in producing continuous abstinence and remission compared to these approaches.

          Source: Wikipedia

        • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
          25·
          1 年前

          Others have mentioned it, but to elaborate, Alcoholics Anonymous is not merely sitting in a circle and sharing your problems, but a belief system which requires you to submit to a higher power to move forward.

          • ϻеƌųʂɑ@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            6·
            1 年前

            Knew a guy who insisted he wasn’t addicted, but he can’t go a day without attending an AA meeting. 40 years, non stop. Even when in other countries for work, he finds them. Left his own daughters wedding dinner to make it to one.

            He runs his own chapter where he lives. He’s had people follow the steps, sure, but some don’t. No matter how successful the latter are, he tears them apart for “not doing it right” and has turned his back on them for not following how he did it.

            • SCB@lemmy.world
              5·
              1 年前

              My favorite quote on fanaticism applies here:

              “Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim” - George Santayana

          • JJROKCZ@lemmy.world
            38·
            1 年前

            I know they get preachy but you can ignore that, many alcoholics get help from them without joining the cult of Christianity

      • IHadTwoCows@lemm.ee
        621·
        1 年前

        There is no greater fucking idiot than the one who thinks a social gathering for discussion is subject to the rules of double-blind scientific testing. Watching some arrogant fucking shithead attempting to slander 12-stop programs as “not scientific” is hilarious because OF COURSE IT ISN’T SCIENTIFIC!! IT MAKES NO CLAIMS TO BE.

        • CmdrShepard@lemmy.oneEnglish
          17·
          1 年前

          That’s all fine and dandy until you get court ordered to attend these meetings as if it were a scientifically proven method of quitting drinking. It’d be like doing something bad and then being court ordered to attend church so that you can “gain a moral compass.”

    • FrostMyProstate@lemmy.world
      22·
      1 年前

      I’m in a similar situation with a bipolar diagnosis. I was diagnosed after speaking with a sketchy psychologist for 20 minutes at best. Apparently thinking you don’t have bipolar disorder is a symptom of bipolar disorder.

      Even after working with two other psychologists for well over a year and both diagnosing me with PTSD and that diagnosis perfectly matching my experience, not a single doctor will put that on my medical record. They won’t refer me to appropriate treatment. They won’t change my medication and tell me it works instead of asking.

      I’ve been trying to get this fixed since 2008, but I just get shut down immediately after bringing it up. I’m barely getting by due to very poor mental health and everything just keeps getting worse.

      • gr0nr@lemmy.world
        15·
        1 年前

        Have you talked to a medical malpractice lawyer about your original diagnosis? Most will do an initial consult for free and work on contingency. In this rock-paper-scissor world lawyer beats doctor.

    • intensely_human@lemm.ee
      11·
      1 年前

      That is so fucked up. I hate the lack of self awareness the medical field has with regard to the impossible situations it puts some patients in.

    • Twofacetony@lemmy.world
      112·
      1 年前

      I believe you when you say you’re not anorexic, or ever had anorexia, but as a 43 year old man, who is 185cm tall, my healthy range is 63-86 kilos.

      I am 82 kilos give or take a meal, and if I lost 15 kilos I would be very, very slender, and that would still keep me well in the “healthy” range.

      What I’m saying is the healthy range, to me at least, should be taken with a pinch of salt, and it’s shithouse that your diagnosis has vexed you for over ten years.

  • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
    392·
    1 年前

    “I have literally not had alcoholic beverages even once in my life, how would it be possible to become an alcoholic given that?”

  • DaGeek247@kbin.social
    376·
    1 年前

    Only acoholics actually need to try to convince others that they aren’t alcoholics. Nobody goes up to a person on the street to start aggressively asking if they have a drinking problem.

    Any serious questions about how alcohol is affecting your life will quickly demonstrate whether it is is or isn’t a problem, without you ever saying that you don’t have a drinking problem.

  • frezik@midwest.social
    311·
    1 年前

    I drink a lot less now that I have easy access to THC.

    This goes for a lot of other bad things, too. “Just to get it out of the way, I am not a child molester”.

  • habanhero@lemmy.ca
    277·
    1 年前

    It’s because denial is part of being an alcoholic. The same goes with being called a liar.

    • TheGreenGolem@lemm.ee
      7·
      1 年前

      Except when it’s not. I so much hate this rhetoric. You know what? You can freely think that I am one, and I genuinely think I’m not. If you think that I am one, that’s your problem, not mine. That’s why OP’s question is so hard to answer. Because everybody is just parroting this rhetoric.

      And “you are clearly an alcoholic” comments in 3, 2, 1…

      • habanhero@lemmy.ca
        15·
        1 年前

        You can freely think that I am one, and I genuinely think I’m not. If you think that I am one, that’s your problem, not mine.

        I mean that’s exactly the issue lol. You might not be an alcoholic, but if you were there’s a solid chance you’d deny that fact.There is a good reason why parts of the 12 step program involve admitting and recognizing that there is a problem, and it’s not limited to alcoholism but substance abuse in general.

        A lot of people who genuinely need help refuses to see or admit that they do.

        • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
          1·
          1 年前

          If someone has problem x but doesn’t want others to know about it, how would they behave?

          If someone didn’t have problem x and didn’t want others to think they did, how would they behave?

          And most importantly, how would you differentiate between the two cases? Don’t just stop after the first question.

          • habanhero@lemmy.ca
            1·
            1 年前

            In both cases I think they would deny it.

            I don’t have a solution for the 2nd situation (and I don’t think anyone really does), this is more of a social problem. The point I’m making is that in the first scenario there is a clear pattern of denial for those who need help.

            In terms of how you differeniate it, my understanding is if the behavior is impacting your life negatively then you would seek help. But I’m not an expert and that’s not a problem we are solving here.

    • Rob@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      1 年前

      The same goes with being called a liar.

      Every statement I make is a lie.

  • LoraxEleven@lemmy.world
    13·
    1 年前

    That’s exactly what a fuckin boozer would say, also.

    Although… I’ve been drinking since about October o’clock… so, what the fuck would I know about it, anyways.

    (I say: they can stop anytime you want me to.)

    Cheers!

      • DeepFriedDresden@kbin.social
        111·
        1 年前

        Yeah I’m going to have to agree. I’m an alcoholic myself and this is a problematic way of living with it. Moderation seldom works for alcoholics as it is and by putting your choice to drink on someone else’s offerings seems to just be a way to escape any blame should it end in full relapse.

        Everybody’s journey is different though so I’m not going to judge. But at no point was I able to stop drinking until I straight stopped drinking. As they say “one drink is too much and a hundred isn’t enough.”

    • jak@sopuli.xyz
      73·
      1 年前

      Can I try to gently press that a little?

      I would feel awful if I found out I had been enabling someone’s alcoholism, especially if they only allowed it because they trusted me and I offered them drinks. I have ADHD and autism, so I understand making yourself hard and fast rules to avoid having to make your own self control (I’m not saying that’s definitely what you’re doing).

      Could you perhaps try gradually increasing the rules one by one so that in the end there’s basically no scenario in which you drink? I’m talking: a trusted person offers it to you; it’s a weekend; it’s nice weather out; your whole house is clean; you’ve got extra cash; you ate healthy that day; you are already in a good mood; your beloved (hopefully incapable, for this situation) sports team has won; you talked to two relatives that day, etc. I’m not a therapist, but that works for me. The problem is when I mess up- my rules are great for keeping me out of trouble, but they make me spiral if/when I do break them. You might have to figure out a combination of zero tolerance for “mistakes” and allowing yourself to make actual mistakes without spiraling.

  • JTheDoc@lemmy.world
    9·
    1 年前

    I haven’t drunk alcohol in over a year, last time I got drunk was maybe almost a decade ago…

    I’m sure that’ll convince someone? Though it makes it sound like I used to be one too lol.

  • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
    7·
    1 年前

    “I’ve honestly never really thought about it.” And then “I don’t know, I don’t really keep track of how much I drink.”