It was nice knowing Raspberry Pi while they lasted. Going to suck losing something that has changed the homegrown embedded system hobby forever.

    • NotAnotherLemmyUser@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Then it’s a good thing that no countries have pure capitalism for their economy.

      We need regulation on corporations to keep them in check.

      • JoJo@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 month ago

        then it’s a good thing that no countries have pure capitalism for their economy

        America: 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅

        • NotAnotherLemmyUser@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          America doesn’t have a pure capitalist economy.

          A pure capitalist economy would have a free market system with no government intervention.

          Almost every country has a mix between capitalism and socialism for their economies.

          A pure capitalist economy is terrible just as much as a pure socialist economy would be terrible.
          The trick is finding the right balance between the two.

          • kboy101222@sh.itjust.works
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            1 month ago

            Government doing things ≠ socialism.

            Government regulating things ≠ socialism

            Roads and parks ≠ socialism

            Socialism is based in the collective ownership of companies by the workers who make everything happen, rather than execs and managers. Socialism isn’t when government does stuff or when healthcare.

            • NotAnotherLemmyUser@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              I’m just going off of the definition here:

              https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

              any of various egalitarian economic and political theories or movements advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.

              We definitely don’t have a pure capitalist economy since that would mean that there is no government intervention in the market.

              And we do have parts of the economy that are owned/run by the government as socialism would suggest.

              What would you call it, if not a mix of capitalism and socialism? Maybe a mix of Capitalism and Communism would be more accurate?

              This article would seem to suggest that: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/economy.asp

              • kingthrillgore@lemmy.ml
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                1 month ago

                I would argue that the very means of communist ownership relying on the state means that state capitalism is the means in which communism is reached, and the Soviet Union definitely aligned closer to that, but this is a topic of dispute with scholars.

            • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              I like how enraged you were that your comment just abruptly ends. It comes off like you were ranting in front of a microphone and got so worked up you walked away mid-rant. Just ranting down the hallway, and down the street…but we don’t hear it, because you’re away from the microphone.

          • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 month ago

            Youre thinking of laissez-faire capitalism, maybe even libertarian capitalism?

            America is absolutely capitalist in every sense of the term. The entire nation is corporatized and the government has no particularly influential anti-capitalist entities. Both competing parties are capitalist. The social framework by which we raise children is structured to indoctrinate them into the ideologies of neoliberalism and American economic exceptionalism. The propaganda that American society is meritocratic is enforced throughout our entire lives, all with the aim of suppressing the class consciousness of the working class.

            People are responding to you with derision because what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense. Capitalism and socialism are not based entirely on hard rules. They’re both economic ideologies and social philosophies packaged into cultural frameworks. America is actively anti socialist. They have a very long history of anti communism and anti workers’ rights. America is the holotype of post-Reagan neoliberal capitalism. It is one of the worst countries in the world in terms of wealth disparity and income inequality. It is one of the least regulated economic powers in history, with it being open knowledge that billionaires rule the country and can essentially do anything they want without facing any kind of material consequences.

            • NotAnotherLemmyUser@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              When I say pure capitalism, yes, I’m referring to laissez faire capitalism.

              I can’t think of any countries that currently have that, and I don’t think we should want that.

              Socialism is likely not the best term here, but when I’m referring to it economically I mean in the sense that the government has ownership of some businesses and is regulating other businesses as opposed to what would happen with laissez-faire capitalism.

              Perhaps it is better to say that the U.S. is a mix between Capitalism (a market economy) and Communism (a command-based economy) as this article explains? https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/economy.asp

              It is one of the worst countries in the world in terms of wealth disparity and income inequality.

              That has not been my experience when visiting/living in other countries, but I am curious if you have some data to back this statement up?

              Although I do agree that we have a problem with wealth disparity and income inequality.

              I think we should look to other countries that have much higher levels of happiness (Such as Sweden) compared to the U.S. and try to imitate what they are doing.

              Even in the case of looking to economies like what Sweden has, it is still a mixed economy. So completely doing away with capitalism is not something we should be striving for.

              • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 month ago

                There is no aspect of the US that is in any sense communist. Communism refers very specifically to a style of government which directly owns and controls the means of production across all forms of industry. This style of government is controlled by the proletariat. That is not the case for any industry in the US. The link you provided is propaganda not based on any actual communist beliefs. Communism is not a “command based” anything, it is a philosophy with regards to the distribution of the means of production and how the fruits of the working class’s labor should be shared.

                https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gini-coefficient-by-country

                The US gini coefficient is 39.8 as of 2021. Making it one of the worst countries in the world for income inequality. There are plenty of areas in the southern states especially where entire towns are below the poverty line, some very significantly below it.

                • NotAnotherLemmyUser@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  Well the U.S. isn’t entirely capitalist either.

                  On one extreme you have a completely free market economy. On the other extreme you have an economy that’s completely controlled by the government (such as Communism).

                  A pure free market economy doesn’t really exist anywhere among all the countries, what we have instead are a lot of countries that try to find the right balance between letting the market control itself and having the government control the market.

                  So call it whatever you want, but the US does have a mixed economy when placed on that scale.

                  The US gini coefficient is 39.8 as of 2021. Making it one of the worst countries in the world for income inequality.

                  I don’t know how you can say it’s one of the worst when it’s not even in the bottom third in that list of 162 countries.

                  According to that source, the worst country is South Africa with a Gini coefficient of 63.0.

                  The best country is Norway with a Gini Coefficient of 22.7.

                  The US. Ranks 57th with a Gini coefficient of 39.8.

                  If anything that places it in the middle rather than “one of the worst”.

          • Wrrzag@lemmy.ml
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            Regulated capitalism is still capitalism. There’s no such thing as “pure” or “impure” capitalism, the social relationships to capital are the same. Lassiez-faire capitalism is just a flavour of it.

            It’s like ice-cream: you may prefer chocolate ice-cream over vanilla ice-cream, but they are both flavours of ice-cream and you wouldn’t say “yea, that’s not pure ice-cream”. Some people may even dislike ice-cream altogether and prefer cheesecake.

            • NotAnotherLemmyUser@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Imagine a scale, on one end is a market economy where the government does not regulate it in any way, and does not own any part of it in any way. This is pure capitalism/laissez fair capitalism, whatever you want to call it. And you are correct, it does not exist today in any country (and that’s a good thing in my opinion).

              On the other end of that scale would be an economy that is completely controlled/owned/regulated by the government (for example, communism).

              In economic terms, every country falls on that scale with some balance between a completely free market economy and how much regulation they impose as well as what kind of industries they control/own.

              If someone is going to blame capitalism for “ruining everything” they are basically asking for a market system where everything is controlled/owned by the government. Where monopolies are rampant, and the citizens have no choice except for what the government or dictatorship has decided. In my opinion, this is also a bad choice.

              If I am wrong about what they are asking for, feel free to point out the economy of a country that they are saying we should follow. In other words, if not capitalism, what are you asking for?

              • Wrrzag@lemmy.ml
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                1 month ago

                I’m a commie, so I’m all for social ownership of the means of production, but that’s neither here nor there. The point is, there isn’t a scale of how pure capitalism is: a Keynesian model is as capitalistic as laissez-faire is because the underlying relationships to capital are the same. Communism isn’t at the other end of any scale because it’s an entirely different model, not just more or less regulation.

                Some may argue that no country is socialist because they are still transitioning, and that they are still capitalist, but that’s not a scale: they are not socialist (yet, hopefully) because their mode of production is still capitalistic.

          • neo@lemy.lol
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            1 month ago

            You’re downvoted, maybe because people think you promoted the current system (I don’t see that), but what you wrote is technical correct.

            The US has less regulations than it used to have, but there are still rules (e.g. laws against insider trading and stock manipulation, labour laws, consumer and environmental protection etc.).

            Unfortunately the existing rule are being gamed into oblivion and I’m not saying they are sufficient nor do I deny their decline. I’m just saying it could (and maybe will) be worse than now.

          • exanime@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            In America, the government intervention is whatever corporations pay politicians to say and do… it’s actually worse than pure Capitalism and they managed, through regulatory capture, to turn the government against the people or competition for their paymasters

      • Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
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        The fact that regulations make capitalism less dangerous doesn’t mean that capitalism is fine as long as its regulated.

        Hand grenades have a tonne of safety features, but you wouldn’t let your kid play with one. “Safer” isn’t the same thing as “safe”.

        • NotAnotherLemmyUser@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          What would you propose as being better than the mix of capitalism and socialism that almost every country already has for their economy?

          Both extremes lead to terrible outcomes.

          • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Has any country actually TRIED anarchy? I know it sounds terrible on paper, but like…could it possibly be any worse then whatever the fuck north korea is doing? The dictator and his dogs eat very well. Nice beef meals. Whereas the citizens are more like prisoners within a country. Most never even seeing beef because it’s too expensive.

            Would their lives actually be any worse off if there was just no government, no police, no military, no rules, just everybody for themselves?

            Because it kind of seems like they got nothing to lose. It be an amazing case study.

            • LazyBane@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              There was the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest. It’s not a whole country going anarchist and no doubt the limited amount of people with the nessisary skill sets to have a functioning society (judging from the food garden they set up) held back the viability of the protest, but in general the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest was widly seen as a wild failure.

              It’s an interesting thing to look up on, and I’d definitely recommend anyone who is serious about anarchism to study it for the potential pit falls of an anarchist society that they would need to work out first.

          • Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
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            1 month ago

            “Listen, we already watered down our deadly poison a little and it’s still killing us. Unless you have a better idea we’ll just have to keep drinking deadly poison.”

        • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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          I’d let my kid play with a grenade. Then again, I don’t have kids by choice, so to imply I had kids would be to imply that at some point something went terribly wrong. But rectified in the most absurd method possible.

          Plus, you couldn’t go to jail for child abuse, because what parent is “double checking” that the grenade he’s playing with is in fact a toy? BECAUSE WHERE THE HELL DOES THIS 3 YEAR OLD GET A GRENADE???

          That logic would track in court. A very sad, very bizzare set of circumstances. That theres no way you could blame the parent for.

  • Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    I’m willing to bet they’ll start adding telemetry features in RPiOS for “quality purposes” a few years from now.

  • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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    Yeah, expect nothing more than enshitification. That way, if they don’t enshitify like every company does, then we’ll be pleasantly surprised.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      The Pi5 is already a shitshow with crazy power usage requiring a special power supply instead of a normal USB C phone charger.

      • Lettuce eat lettuce@lemmy.ml
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        We’re lucky that the SBC space has gotten really solid over the last couple years. ARM-based, X86-based, and even some RISC-V systems.

        The PI isn’t the only only game in town now, and actually gets beat in several different applications depending on use case.

        As shareholder value and line-must-go-up takes over the company culture, progress and innovation will happen more and more in the hands of companies and orgs that actually care about their product’s quality and features.

        Still disappointing though, the Pi was my first introduction to IoT and low power computing.

      • Valmond@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Yeah I’d take a 3b-ish PI for say 30€ any day (IDK if that’s realistic pricing). If I need beefy hardware I just use a PC?

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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          The Pi4 had a good price on release. Then Covid hit.

          With the Pi5 the Pi foundation is just milking it. Overpriced chip on an inefficient outdated 28nm process node.

  • Omgboom@lemmy.zip
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    N100 mini PCs are where it’s at these days anyways. Unless you need the GPIO pins or are running some weird niche configuration, you’re better off grabbing any N100, they’re cheaper too.

    • Funderpants @lemmy.ca
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      I look for broken but working sff/tiny deals. Scored a sweet i5 7500 /16gb system for $100CAD. Just had a broken audio port I was never going to use.

    • maniajack@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      After some light searching, am I missing something? I don’t see n100 cheaper than rpi 5

    • xenoclast@lemmy.world
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      PIs are kind of screwed from N* on the higher power end and ESP32 (or similar high power micro controllers) the lower end.

      It’s become an underpowered middle player no one needs.

      It was good while it lasted. PI3’s for $30 we’re amazing.

    • jabjoe@feddit.uk
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      GPIOs are the easy bit. You can get those no issue on x86. It’s I2C and SPI that are the issue with x86. You can get the buses sure, but all the device drivers are Device Tree based. You can’t just throw in Device Tree overlays on x86.

      • SteveTech@programming.dev
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        1 month ago

        Idk, with I2C if it’s not something that needs a kernel level driver, there usually isn’t a problem with interacting with it from user space, for example basically all RAM RGB controllers are I2C and OpenRGB has no problem with them. I’m pretty sure I’ve only ever used an I2C device tree overlay for an RTC.

        Also I2C/SMBus is present everywhere on x86, like some graphics cards expose it through their HDMI ports, even some server motherboards have a header for it; but for GPIO I’m unaware of any motherboards that expose it, so good luck researching the chipset and tracing out the pins.

        • jabjoe@feddit.uk
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          1 month ago

          Only a fraction of it is RTCs. What is in the Pi overlays folder is from everything. Not even all the DT I2C RTCs. There is loads of ADCs, DACs, IO extenders, all sorts.

          It’s really annoying you can’t do DT on x86 Linux. It’s a bit of a gap in the platform. It would make Linux ARM based developer’s lives easier.

            • jabjoe@feddit.uk
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              1 month ago

              You can of course write drivers for them, but then it’s you own abstraction not the standard Linux abstraction. (You can hack something up with IIO for that stuff, but it’s not pretty). There is CUSE (part of FUSE) you can do some character devices with.

              Existing drivers in Python are messy to use if you our not developer in Python.

              The nice thing about in kernel is:

              • it’s done for you already
              • the interface is standard and will work with anything that uses that class of device
              • it’s langauge agnostic.

              The Linux kernel does hardware abstraction. It’s not a microkernel. There is limited support for proper userspace drivers.

              If you doing some application specific app, that will only work with those chips, use do it in userspace. But to make a normal system for normal use, you want things in kernel like normal.

      • BritishJ@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        They’re not actually lower powered, they just have a TDP limit set.

        E.g. A 8500 and 8500T will idle at the same power consumption, but the 8500T has a TDP limit set.

    • madcaesar@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      I have a pi 4, how would the transfer work? Can you install pios on the n100 and just clone stuff over?

      • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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        N100 is a standard Intel x86 family chip, so no. Plenty of power though, so you’d be able to install any Linux distro or even Windows if you wanted to disgust Lemmy.

    • czardestructo@lemmy.world
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      Can you swap the hard drive between any generation and still have it boot and work 100%? To me that was the second biggest feature after all the gpio and i2c buses I used to hack all manner of stuff together. Heck I even have a cargo trailer powered by a pi!

  • WormFood@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    I picked up a radxa zero last year and have been quite enjoying it. the hardware is better than a pi zero but costs less. same with a lot of other SBCs

    but raspberry pi has a lot of inertia behind it, a lot of software and hardware support. people will keep using them, just like they keep using Ubuntu, even though it’s a soulless corporate husk of what it one was

    • Howdy@lemmy.zip
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      As long as I’m not locked into using their OS on their hardware I’ll still be interested. I have a 3,4&5 doing various tasks around my house and enjoy the little boards.