Except in crisis, a society benefits when everyone does nothing renegade.
The problem is we’re in crisis, largely due to a lack of information about the scope and breadth of that crisis.
It’s how we’re conditioned to behave by society from birth. Break the rules and you get punished.
Lmao i love this planet.
Right… Except this is true for all online communities. People talk a lot of shit and complain a lot. Cope with it or log off.
Or blame it on the left, lol, whatever makes you happy.
It’s easy to convince people to do wrong if you convince them there is no right to be done.
That’s why Tankies are so hard to tell us both sides bad.
A lot of online leftists aren’t doing anything because they don’t know how to do something (or are scared, e.g. of losing their job or of getting brutalized by the police). If you aren’t doing anything in The Real World™ there are only so many things left to do, and the internet is genuinely terrible about people who make mistakes or change their opinion.
Ah yes, the old enemy of the left: the left.
You leftists sure are a contentious people.
You’ve just made an enemy for life!
You’ve just made an enemy for
lifeleft!ftfy
The differences of opinion are still there in irl leftist spaces but it alters how it feels when you’re actively doing something. Online you only see the differences in opinion but the real leftists aren’t just arguing details online (though they do that too) they’re running food banks and organizing housing cooperatives and coming out en masse when someone is being evicted. They’re putting together food packages and sending books to inmates. They’re hiking out into the desert to leave water for migrants and waiting by the train tracks to toss food up to travelers.
Bickering about details online might seem ridiculous to someone who isn’t involved but for the actually active leftists that part is only a sliver of their leftism and it’s not necessarily a bad thing— it’s very hard to imagine the world organized other than it is and one way we can be prepared to make the right decisions together when gaps appear is to discuss everything from every angle. I’m not going to pretend all the stuff online is in good faith and I suspect a good percentage of keyboard warriors who are not actually involved in leftward movement, but I do think in the context of real activism the bickering makes more sense.
I swear you could introduce UBI and someone somewhere would complain about it not being left enough.
I mean it depends on the context of how UBI is going to get paid for. If it is funded by a wealth tax then I am on board. But that’s not how the powerful proponents of UBI say it should be funded. Andrew Yang would have us take it out of Social Security to pay for it but you don’t hear him say we should uncap Social Security contributions.
Someone somewhere would because UBI is the capitalist techbro idea of a social safety net; it’s a band-aid that doesn’t address the underlying problems in a similar way to how the ACA helps but in reality is a very center-right idea that doesn’t address the underlying hypercapitalist healthcare system.
Well there yah go, we didn’t even need to introduce it and it’s already not left enough.
It never was.
This was a great meme. Thanks guys.
UBI is only surface-level leftist, it’s distributing some of the wealth while leaving the important parts - property - untouched.
So yes, I and many others would complain about UBI. I’ve long held it’s an untenable bandage slapped on the gaping hemorrhage that is capitalism.
The irony writing itself.
You literally just engaged in what the OP was talking about, and here am I joining in as well.
It’s certainly not enough, but I’d still prefer it over nothing. I’ll gladly take a miniscule win.
If you know anything about first aid you know that slapping a bandage on is the first step to actually helping the patient.
“The real problem with this stab wound is it damaged their liver. Putting a bandage over the wound isn’t going to solve that, what they really need is surgery!”
“We’re twenty miles away from a hospital, we need to stop the bleeding or they’ll die before we get them to a doctor.”
“A bandage isn’t going to save them. Only a surgeon will.”
That’s under the assumption that you’re actually getting them to a doctor and not just slapping the bandaid on and calling it a day.
And that is the issue. Ada is bleeding to death, and Bob is giving them a rudimentary bandage to staunch the bleeding. You could:
-
Let Bob do their thing, and go get an ambulance.
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Complain to Bob that this will only slow down the bleeding. What Ada needs is to be in a hospital. Keep yelling at Bob for his shitty bandage.
We are all afraid that Jake will convince the doctor to refuse surgery claimimg the problem is fixed now. He goes on to convince Ada and the world that she is healed and asking for surgery makes no sense.
I dont know if Jake will be effective at creating regressions nor if we can fight him off effectively.
You know what the most important thing for proper triage is : my personal feelings /s
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I mean, if it introduces people to surface-level leftist ideas and gets them onboard, they then can be drawn further to the normal - the left wing ideas. Which would be good.
I agree with you though that it’s only a bandage.
The Left: Fractured Butt Hole. 😞
Preach
As a leftist its also important to keep in mind we do differentiate between leftists who hold some opinions we disagree with compared to a Liberal who disagrees with us on nearly everything. Especially when said Liberals demand to be treated like leftists yet support imperalism, genocide, apartheid, capitalism, bigotry, and yet constantly call people “fake leftists” or “tankies”.
It’s a strange state of affairs, there is a right wing recruitment pipeline deticated to making fun of liberals for being “cringe but also wrong”™.
An interesting experament you can do, replace “leftist”, “the left” and “liberal” with “SJW” (swap the insider and outsider language) and ask yourself how much and in what interesting ways does the sentimate of the post change.
Maybe I’m in a bubble, but I have yet to see anyone who’s not genuinely a tankie being accused of such.
I’ve seen conservatives lob the word tankie around before like they do with other scary sounding political words. But not here on lemmy. “Tankie” has a very precise meaning on lemmy that everyone here seems to understand, despite a few tankies trying to gaslight people into thinking the term has “lost it’s meaning”.
Ive seen people be called tankies for not supporting Kamala and opposing Liberal Democracy
for not supporting Kamala
That’s wild. I’ve never heard that take and have a difficult time believing that it is common.
opposing Liberal Democracy
What alternative were they in favor of?
That’s wild. I’ve never heard that take and have a difficult time believing that it is common.
World users were literally calling anyone who critiqued Kamala Russian bots, were you not paying attention for the last several months?
What alternative were they in favor of?
Depends, some leftists support a workers democracy, im personally an Anarcho Syndicalist
You had me until “tankies”. Tankies are scum and don’t need defending.
You cant use your favorite strawman argument? How sad
It’s not about defending tankies it’s about people who are constantly shifting the focus of conversation to the most mockable section of online lefties.
The ruling class don’t waste their time distancing themselves from qanon, they focus on furthering their class interests and emiserating the poor.
Liberals who are constantly calling people tankies are helping the ruling class.
I’m not taking cues from the far-right in not denouncing our worst aspects when I see them and letting them take up shop in our spaces. I don’t see the need to whataboutism to them either and will call that out, but I don’t want them in spaces I’m in either.
No one’s defending tankies, nor saying we shouldn’t call them out. The original commenter was saying liberals call all manner of leftists “tankies” when they actually aren’t in order to derail them.
The next commenter stated: “The ruling class don’t waste their time distancing themselves from qanon, they focus on furthering their class interests and emiserating the poor.” Distancing themselves includes calling them out. So it sounds to me like they’re saying we need to be pragmatic like the ruling class and not distance ourselves from tankies, which is absolutely not something I’m ever going to do for those slimeballs. Actively doing it like some sort of performance apropos of nothing? Sure, maybe not. But if a tankie ever tries to associate with us, they need to be given the boot over their disgusting ideals.
I’m saying the need to instantly and constantly denounce tankies is tedious and counterproductive. I’m saying that policing the boundaries of leftism based on dumb shit said online is a reactionary distraction.
It’s a common strategy used to distract from the core issues. It’s like when supporters of israel go “but do you condemn hamas?!” or “oh, I notice you don’t criticize hamas as much (therefore you must support them)”
I feel like you thought they were disagreeing with you, when they were pointing out the hypocrisy of Liberals but I dunno…
What’s a tankie?
It’s a political slang word. It refers to those who support leftist authoritarian regimes such as communist, China. Regimes where the state can do no wrong and the people do all the wrong so the state must step in to crush the people and “protect them” from dangerous, Western and capitalist ideas. Pretty sure the name derives from the 1989 tiananmen square incident.
The term has nothing to do with Tiananmen square and it’s usage actually predates the massacre by almost 40 years.
Yeah you’re right. I was for some reason conflating the USSR invading Hungary
And how do we do that?
This is the internet, everyone is as anonymous as they want to be. Lots of people find these posts by browsing by All, so they’re not likely to be aware of (or care about) the rules for a particular instance. If a Liberal and a Leftist wander into the same community, it can be hard to tell them apart unless they’ve made politics their whole identity.
Its pretty simple, do you support genocide?
I remember when the election happened I saw so many people on the left complaining that they needed a left wing version of Joe Rogan.
Motherfuckers you HAD Joe Rogan. He just talked to people you didn’t like sometimes so you literally pushed him into the open arms of the right. Good job idiots.
Yeah I don’t think that’s what happened.
We doing revisionist history now? Joe endorsed Bernie Sanders in 2020. He was a self described Democrat for the majority of his life.
But because he invited guests from both sides of the isle onto his podcast the left decided he was a problem. God forbid anyone want to even hear what the other side is thinking once in their lives. The left abandoned Joe and guess who was there to snap him up when they did that? The alt right dumbasses. So now we have Joe endorsing Trump this time around.
The left is not tolerant of any amount of different thinking among their ranks. You gotta agree on everything or you need to leave. You can see it situations like Joe or even smaller situations like myself and many others who spent their entire lives being Democrats only to be shown the door when we disagreed on one or two things.
Whether or not you believe that’s what’s going on I can tell with absolute certainty it is. The 2024 election results fall more on the shoulders of the Democratic party messing everything up than Trump or the Republicans doing anything particularly right.
Y’all need to stop thinking in such black and white terms when it comes to people. Someone can be all for universal healthcare, but also want their own gun to defend themselves. Some of the more moderate left can understand that, but the grand majority will view that kind of person as a full on righty so they push them away. And guess what happens when they do that? You lose elections because you’re so up your own ass about things that you lose people who were on your side.
…be shown the door when we disagreed on one or two things.
Did your girlfriend break up with you over that tiny little issue of believing she deserves bodily autonomy?
Go ahead, tell us the tragic story of how the Democrats forced you to change sides not because of the issues that haven’t changed, but because your feelings got hurt.
See you’re proving my point for me right now. You don’t even know me or any of my stances yet you assume because I have said I don’t agree with all the ideas on the left that I must be a Trumpy.
I am staunchly pro-choice. I’ve never been broken up with because of my political beliefs.
You seriously need to take a step back and reevaluate how you interact with people.
No, I did not assume. I read the part where you said you spent your entire life as a Democrat. That’s the past tense which means you no longer are.
Nobody kicked you out. You got upset when somebody pushed back. Just like now.
What opinion of yours got challenged enough that you left? Let’s hear it so we know if it’s bad enough to deserve whatever you got or you were unjustly maligned.
I’m not the guy you’re replying to and I am interested to hear his response, but also I’d like to point out that you jumped to conclusions faster than Superman can jump over a building. But hey what do I know? I’m just a libertarian minarchist. Personally, almost all of your purity tests are repugnant from my point of view.
Maybe you should look into egotistical altruism.
No opinion of mine got challenged at all. There is no calm discussion with most Democrats. My mom is the only Democrat in my family that is even open to conversation with me on topics we disagree on. The majority simply scream or walk away the moment you say something they don’t agree with. I have my beliefs about certain things that don’t align with the lefts playbook. I have had lifelong friends (and family) stop speaking to me forever because I disagreed with them about one thing. We agreed on all other major political topics but they couldn’t stand my different opinion on one thing so they “kicked” me out of their group. They don’t want anyone with even remotely different thinking in their bubble. These are the same people who were 100% sure Kamala had 2024 in the bag. They built those garden walls a little too high and lost touch with reality.
I am friends with many people that I disagree with on a myriad of topics. I do not drop them as friends because we disagree on a few things because I’m not a child that views the world with this black and white/us vs them mentality. People are complex and to condemn anyone who doesn’t think exactly like me would unbelievably idiotic.
Your comments remain to be another prime example of this behavior. You don’t even know what I think about things and simply because you heard that I used to be a Democrat you have already started attacking me. Behavior like yours is precisely how the Democrats lost the 2024 election.
I am pro-choice. The government should have basically zero input on this. The only three people that should have anything to say about a pregnancy are the two people that caused it to happen and their doctor.
All for universal healthcare. Our current system is a bloated mess that actually ends up costing us more than universal healthcare would.
Don’t care about gay marriage whatsoever. Let people marry whatever consenting adult they want. The government should have basically zero say about this.
I believe in actual freedom of speech full stop. Not like Elon Musk who claims he’s a free speech absolutionist, but he immediately removes people he doesn’t like from twitter. Fuck that guy forever.
I believe everyone has a right to defend themselves. Guns or otherwise. We have a rampant mental health problem and blaming whatever tool the crazy person uses is a massive waste of time and energy. We need to be addressing the root cause.
I think taxes should increase as you go up in wealth. People struggling to keep a roof over their heads and feed themselves should essentially pay zero taxes and those who have three homes in 3 different countries need to be paying more.
Churches 100000000% need to be paying taxes and it’s a fucking joke that they still don’t.
We need to have term limits on all positions and a maximum age for all political positions. If we were smart enough to know that people under the age of 35 aren’t ready to run the country then we need to also agree that someone over the age of let’s say 70 is also too old to reasonably understand what the majority of the country needs or wants.
I can’t think of all the major political disagreements between the parties right now, but if you were to count them up the grand majority of my opinions fall into the “blue” side of things. I have never had any right leaning friends stop speaking to me for my various left leaning opinions, but I have had MANY left leaning people in my life completely cut me out of their lives immediately upon the first disagreement.
I am not the only person I know with those “mid-left” ideals that has found themselves similarly abandoned by the left. I’m no longer a Democrat because I will not associate myself with such a elitists group of close minded pricks. For completely different reasons I won’t associate with the religious conservative morons on the right either.
Because I don’t fully subscribe to either side I don’t have a “home” but I have only ever been shunned by Dems. Republicans has either been indifferent or open to conversation with me which is precisely how the Democrats lost 2024. They will likely continue to lose in the future unless the whole party makes some rather significant shifts.
since when are the democrats considered left… do you mean liberals?
Rogan has a huge platform that reaches a lot of people and, in my opinion, along with that platform comes a responsibility to be careful about the voices and ideas he allows to be amplified on his show. There are already plenty of sources out there for people who want to check in on what the right is thinking. Rogan didn’t need to be one of them. He rightly faced criticism. If his political stances weren’t solid enough to survive the criticism, then I wonder how strong his convictions were to begin with.
Do you people even hear yourselves?
It’s HIS podcast. If he wanted to spend 7 hours s day talking about chimps that’s HIS choice. Hell he used to do that sometimes lol.
He originally had people on from all over the political spectrum and every time he dared to have someone the left identified as “problematic” he was torn apart for doing so. Then people from the left stopped wanting to be on the show for fear they were also going to receive backlash for going on it. Look at Bernie. That guy bleeds blue and when he went on he was also shunned for daring to spend a few hours talking to a guy who might not agree with the mainstream left ideals completely.
You created a self fulfilling prophecy. He had red and blue on. You yelled at him for having red people on so less and less blue people wanted to go on the show. Now he’s having more and more red people on the show. Now he’s a full on Trumpy.
People like you turned him away from being a blue moderate and now we have red conspiracy theory Trump Joe.
You go back and watch his earlier episodes when he’s talking to anyone even sorta red and he disagrees with them on practically everything. Joe was what Democrats used to be. They leaned left on most things but they were open to talking to people across the isle. They kept an open mind. Now there is zero nuance allowed. You agree with the left on all stances or you are dead to them. You guys are so stuck in your way of thinking (and thinking you are objectively right about everything) that you can’t even see how you clearly created the situation that resulted in Trump winning in 2024 again. The moderates and the right both told you this was going to happen but you are either too prideful or egotistical to listen to anyone who doesn’t agree with you implicitly.
You’ll find that most people don’t have strong convictions in their politics. People here were incredulous that undecided voters could exist even on election day, but it turns out to be more common than what someone who spends so much time discussing politics online would think.