Not from the USA. How common is it for the fbi to meddle with simple shootings in which no kids or others were harmed?
They’re probably seeing if this was an act of economic terrorism. Feds are big on interstate commerce.
Feds are big on protecting oligarchs. If feds were big on interstate commerce, they’d be arresting the governor of Texas for interfering in it.
It would be nice if our national security agencies would do something about the coup
Genuine question. How do we know they’re not scheming behind the scenes?
You don’t. I honestly doubt that’s the case, but I’ve been completely blindsided before, so that means nothing.
I mean, shooting at Nazis is one of the only productive ways of interacting with them.
Uh-oh. Maybe the right doesn’t get a monopoly on violence anymore. Looks like lefties have guns too.
Could be right-on-right violence. Wasn’t the 2nd person that targeted Trump a self-identified conservative?
The first one was, the kid on the roof with a rifle. He was a registered republican. I don’t know about the second one.
Could be right-on-right violence.
We can hope! Setting the enemies against each other is always a win for us, the working class.
It’s high time.
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Maybe Tesla employees will see this as an opportunity to go find ways to be productive workers in society again and leave.
Actually, I’d prefer that they get as much money away from Elon as possible; break it from the inside even. Just do whatever they have to to keep a check coming in and leave every day a nightmare for the rest. People do this at other automotive companies so I don’t see why the culture should change.
Guess we’ll never know who this badass person was. Oh well
Rightwing influencers immediately leaped on the incident (and the questionable image) to claim that the “crazy left” was responsible for the attack, despite the fact that most liberals have an aversion to guns.
Jeez, what’s it gonna take to get the media to learn/admit the difference between “liberals” and “the left” if not even literal gun violence can do it?
There’s a difference between “liberals” and “Liberals”, same as between “conservative” and “Conservative”
Lower-case usage refers to the political spectrum: you’re generally on the left (liberal) or right (conservative)
Upper-case refers to the specific party beliefs of the Liberals and Conservatives
The point is to conflate the two and drown out leftist talking points with neoliberal ones.
But, I am curious to see how the right will shift their attitudes toward guns now that “liberals” have them and are using them.
Last time leftist Black Panthers started exercising their 2nd amendment rights, it was Ronald Reagan that passed gun regulation laws in California to specifically target their self-policing goals.
Remember when Republicans were trying to make political party discrimination illegal, so you couldn’t criticize their fascism? Meanwhile, I anticipate this rise of leftist gun ownership to be met with authoritarian background checks specifically screening for “leftist, communist, woke, globalist, LGBTQ+” ideologies.
It’s intentional. As Noam Chomsky said:
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum
There has been a deliberate effort to limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion to relatively moderate liberalism (the left) and relatively moderate conservatism (the right). The intent is to create the illusion that no political ideologies or possibilities exist outside of this narrow spectrum.
I think you meant to say extreme conservatism.
Extreme conservativism is not meant to be within the acceptable spectrum.
The acceptable spectrum is supposed to be centered around neoliberalism. Neoliberal technocrats have sought to steer the “Ship Of State” through narrow waters between “Revolution” (the far left) and “Reaction” (the far right). Neoliberals might be willing to steer, from time to time, nearer to reaction than revolution, but the intent is to stay as close to the neoliberal center as possible. Here’s a graphic that the neoliberals came up with to illustrate the concept.
Obviously, the neoliberal technocrats have failed, and the US federal government (the Ship Of State) is now nearly completely captured by various far right reactionary groups. But the mainstream media, in general, is still operating in the mode of neoliberal, centrist thinking. Which is understandable, since that’s the mode they’ve been in for more than half a century.
I understand what you are saying and that many in the media may even believe this is what has been done over the last half century. But that is not true. At least not for the last 25 years. They have been steadily veering farther and farther right and this is the result. They changed what they saw as the window, the Overton window you might say, and didn’t even realize it (some did).
And the result is that now, when someone pushes back against crashing the ship into the cliff of reaction, they are pushed back against just the same as if they were trying to steer us directly into revolution. It’s all a farce.
The neoliberal technocrats didn’t deliberately steer toward the reactionary side. When the ship was moving more to the right, it was when reactionaries were in power, and thus “steering the ship.” In 2000, Al Gore, who is very much a neoliberal technocrat, was supposed to be president, but he lost in a kind of mini coup to George W Bush and the neoconservatives. The neoliberal technocrats wouldn’t take back power - control of the ship of state - again until 2008 when Barak Obama was elected president. They would of course lose control once again in 2016. They would regain control in 2020, but quickly lose it again in 2024. It is likely, I think, that the neoliberal technocrats have lost control of the ship of state permanently. I don’t think they will ever steer it again.
I think you are misunderstanding what I meant. The “neoliberal technocrats” absolutely do not, understand any circumstances, steer the ship towards the center. They steer it towards power. That power as of late has been reactionary.
To be clear the neoliberal technocrats never lost power. They are Republicans and Democrats both.
Neoliberalism is the center, of the spectrum of acceptable political opinion they had established, and tried, but ultimately failed, to maintain.
To be clear the neoliberal technocrats never lost power. They are Republicans and Democrats both.
That was true in the late 70s, 80s, and early 90s. However, the Republican party became less and less neoliberal through the 90s, and by the early 2000s the Republican party had been taken over by the neoconservatives. There is overlap between neoliberalism and neoconservatism, but they are distinct ideologies. Then, in 2016, the Republican party was taken over by Trump, who is neither a neoliberal nor a neoconservative. Trump doesn’t seem to have a guiding ideology. Trump is a useful idiot for multiple groups (Christian conservatives, silicon valley tech bros, far right accelerationists, and foreign powers), all of whom are vying for control of the federal government, for various reasons.
They next to get shot up don’t worry. They been popping off for too long
Oh no! Anyway…
Those poor Tesla shareholders. I’m glad the FBI is standing up for them.
if only their stock would shoot up too
This is precisely the wrong approach. All it’s going to do is generate sympathy for Elmo. One of the most basic tenets of any resistance is to be sure you don’t make the other side martyrs.
It’s too bad the crazies can’t control themselves, they just harm the cause for the rest of us. I would love to see Tesla collapse, not because it’s a bad product (I love EVs), but because Elmo deserves it. This is not the way to go about it.
To the person responsible: get help, read a few books, maybe you’ll be able to avoid doing exactly the wrong thing from now on. You’re not helping us, you’re helping Tesla.
All it’s going to do is generate sympathy for Elmo.
I don’t believe so… Most people are laughing at this story.
But, on that note: What are you doing? Propaganda of the deed has a long, and storied tradition amongst the left.
I hate this fear of making the opposite side a martyr. I’ve been hearing it for arresting and prosecuting Trump for so long. People making that claim basically let him face no consequences and look where that got us. As opposed to “making him a martyr” and who knows where we’d be. At the very least, they’d have had to regroup and change their game plan.
We can’t keep being paralyzed into inaction by the fear of “making a martyr.”
If we make enough of them Martyrs, there won’t be any more of them.
What a crock. I love this thing that has entered the discourse where, “disagreeing with me is advocating doing nothing.” As if not shooting up a car dealership is equivalent to just letting fascists take over. Get a grip.
I’m not going to hand-wring about it, I’m not a pacifist. I don’t advocate for doing nothing in fact I spend almost all my free time organizing, educating, preparing and mobilizing. I wish I did nothing, instead of watching the smartest, most committed and hardworking leaders in our movement burn out one after another.
What is shooting up a dealership going to accomplish? What’s the political message? “Elon bad, break his stuff.” Keep pretending that a single shooter will make a silent fart worth of difference. Anarchists tried this bitd, it was called propaganda of the deed. How many revolutions did it win? Zero. How many gains did it win for the working class? Less than zero because it justified the use of violence against leftists, and the huge swaths of well meaning but slightly backwards people who are conscientious and see what is happening to the world, can be turned against the left. The right will call us terrorists no matter what, but we shouldn’t give them the ammunition.
The fact that you are so politically underdeveloped that you can’t imagine any solution that isn’t an individual committing a single gun crime should make you worry.
Who won the Russian revolution? Was it the Narodniks, the political terrorists? Or was it the Bolsheviks who were the political organizers? And before we litigate the atrocities of the soviets after 1921, let’s not pretend that the Narodniks wouldn’t have just handed political power back to the bourgeois and monarchists, wouldn’t have become even worse. But you don’t have to read thousands of pages of Trotsky and Lenin to know what happens to a country when political terrorists seize power.
The point is we need to organize, and yes, part of that means organizing workers militias and community defense. But a single half cocked act of terrorism is, at best, misguided reformism – but usually it portends something much, much worse.
Believing that individualistic political violence is ineffective and arguing that it is counter productive is not doing nothing. disagreeing with you is not doing nothing. Don’t pretend to know what you’re talking about. There’s a lot more to being an effective radical than just advocating for the most radical position. In fact, often the most “radical” sounding arguments come from the people who are the first to capitulate to power. I see no evidence that your position is anything but misguided, underdeveloped, idealist reformism.
Getting politically educated, as the first commenter suggests, is doing a lot more than shooting up a Tesla dealer ffs because it actually improves political consciousness. Political action without political theory is worse than a complete waste of time, it can have negative effects on our movement.
Instead you wanna go off like some right winger kicking down the door to a pizza shop demanding you and your gun are allowed into the pedo torture basement.
I think you misunderstood. I don’t think shooting up a dealership was useful.
My issue is in the fear of making a martyr has been a big discourse which has lead to inaction. In the hundreds of political discussions I’ve been a part of leading up to the last election it became a recurring theme that people thought Trump couldn’t even be arrested or held accountable for the many crimes he has committed.
Which lead us to a duality where either Trump was a martyr persecuted and having it stimulate his base or we let Trump continue to not experience any consequences and continue to rally his base unimpeded. It became a no-win situation at the outset when we started being afraid of making a martyr.
While we don’t want to do anything that will unduly increase support of Trump or Elon. The use of words like martyr doesn’t do much to help us. I agree we need to be smart about what we do, but I also think we need to be mindful of the language we use and the connotation that it has.
That’s a fine response, so I’d just caution against saying that people are advocating doing nothing when arguing against ineffective violent tactics
What is shooting up a dealership going to accomplish? What’s the political message?
“The oligarchs are not safe. You sold us the rope, and now we’re looking to use it.”
Who said “the last capitalist will sell us the rope we will use to hang him”? Was it Marx? Lenin?
Or was it an American right wing nut case politician giving a speech meant to slander and demonize the left?
Your theoretical knowledge is so non existent that the only left wing “theory” you know well enough to quote, is in fact, right wing political theory
Your theoretical knowledge is so non existent that the only left wing “theory” you know well enough to quote, is in fact, right wing political theory
So quick to jump on this… Neither Marx nor Lenin said it.
Who said it? The working class created that “meme”, and spread it widely.
So, about your purported “knowledge superiority”… Its not false. Where do you think the firearms the working class will use are going to come from? Capitalists are more than happy to sell them to us.
As I said, the working class did not invent it, it was invented by a right winger and picked up by leftists who want to feel badass. Go ahead and feel badass for being a leftist, you are. But action without theory is a death sentence.
Again, I’m not against armed resistance, don’t try and strawman me. The Deacons of Defense and Justice, the Black Panthers and various other armed movements are worth studying and in part emulating.
We check the source for our info, and the source is the right wing political establishment not the “working class,” who has a right to defend itself – but this ain’t it.
You’re damn right I’m quick to jump on it, and for good reason.
As I said, the working class did not invent it, it was invented by a righg winger and picked up by leftists who want to feel badass.
That’s… Just not true. It might have come from a somewhat similar expression purported to be written by Lenin in a letter… Maybe. It has since been picked up by those on the left, and made into what it is today.
But action without theory is a death sentence.
So it theory and no action. Propaganda of the deed works. Like, in this case, it is serving to show the working class that the time to really act is NOW, not later. The more of these happen, the more people jump in.
Again, I’m not against armed resistance, don’t try and strawman me. The Deacons of Defense and Justice, the Black Panthers and various other armed movements are worth studying and in part emulating.
So, do you think they never shot at people?
We check the source for our info, and the source is the right wing political establishment not the “working class,” who has a right to defend itself – but this ain’t it.
What source do you have for that? Historians completely disagree on your claim…
You’re damn right I’m quick to jump on it, and for good reason.
Maybe not so much mate…
Congrats on wasting your time writing this novel
Congrats on calling a few paragraphs qualifying as a novel, telling on yourself here homie
that was a joke.
I know, the irony is I’m criticizing people for not bothering to learn history and theory, and then you call a few paragraphs that I wrote in like 5 minutes “a novel”. Please try and keep up, or actually contribute to the discussion, smart guy
despite the fact that most liberals have an aversion to guns.
I was surprised they linked 2017 data…
But I was even more surprised to see that up to 2024 nothing changed.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/
Really expected to see a spike for “lean Dem” who owned guns over that timespan, but numbers are steady.
Smart people aren’t talking about it.
Why would they advertise stuff like that? I feel like for the Left generally, it’s not an entire personality trait like it is for the Right.
Excellent
