This is maybe not well known outside the US - the US Constitution specifically carves out an exception in the 13th amendment - the amendment which made slavery illegal* in the US - which allows convicted criminals to be used as slaves.
We also have in our fifth amendment that anyone can be deprived of their right to life, liberty or property via the due process of the law.
So, via these two aspects of these amendments, you can technically be deprived of any rights you might hold once you are convicted of a crime and placed in prison. Of course, that is not exactly true. You do still have rights and many lawyers make it their livelihoods to try to secure prisoners their rights. At the same time, though, it’s really not much consolation, since we still absolutely do use prisoners as slave labor, and constantly overlook the unjust abuse and killing of prisoners.
Yup! In America convicted felons are not allowed to vote in federal elections and depending on the law of the state they are not allowed to vote in state or municipal elections either. As a result of these policies a disproportionate amount of black and Latino communities have had their right to vote stripped away.
I checked it out and about 4.4 million US citizens cannot vote (excluding the real 51st state: Puerto-Rico) including 1/19 blacks. That’s crazy, it’s as if the country is setup for a one party system from the get go. You don’t need huge prisoner cohorts to make the 3% difference needed for you to remain in power while maintaining an illusion of democracy.
You have to understand that it’s impressive we got as democratic as we are. Our democracy began with caususes of landowning white men above the age of 21. We were in many ways modeled after the Roman republic, which was also a clusterfuck
This was by design and started shortly after the civil war. During reconstruction when the South was effectively occupied there was a decade or so where it looked like black people might actually enjoy some enfranchisement. But then the dirty compromise happened and Jim Crow took over. Suddenly black people were going to jail for the most minor infractions, and if they couldn’t get them to break the law, they just lied and said they did anyway.
He was convicted in a state court, not a federal court, so the rules are a bit different.
Additionally, elections are administered at the state level, rather than federally, so his home state of Florida makes the rules allowing or disallowing his vote.
It’s a matter of state law, as most election stuff is. Trump could vote because he’s a resident of Florida and Florida only bars people convicted of felonies in Florida from voting, and only then until they have fully completed the punishment laid upon them (meaning both any custodial sentence and any fines). Trump was convicted of felonies in New York, so Florida doesn’t care and Trump could vote.
EDIT: I was incorrect regarding Florida law. Florida also bans people convicted of crimes from voting in Florida if the state where they were convicted would prevent them from voting. This doesn’t impact Trump because New York does not do this.
Not exactly. In Florida with a felony conviction from another state you can’t vote if the conviction prevents you from voting in the state where convicted. So the NY rules apply because It’s a NY conviction.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Citizens in the US don’t have a constitutional right to vote. States are granted electors based (roughly) on their population that can vote and are given broad authority in how to determine how these electors are selected. Technically a state could decide how to vote based on drawing names out of a hat.
While the original text neglected to specifically outline the right to vote (other than saying the states were responsible for running elections), there are six amendments to the constitution expanding and clarifying the right to vote. One of these amendments is that senators must be elected by popular vote – not out of a hat.
As far as your point about electors, that’s just for the presidential election. Most elections you vote directly for the people running for office. Sometimes you even get to directly vote on policy matters (propositions or referendums).
they are also legally slaves! the 13th amendment didn’t remove slavery completely:
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Yeah, in theory just most of them. But in practice, even the ones specifically meant for prisoners like the barring of cruel and unusual punishment don’t really apply to prisoners. Hell, theres a specific exception for prisoners in the “no more slavery” amendment.
Voting rights cannot be stripped by race, gender (we’ll see if that sticks in regards to trans people), or landowner status. But if felons can vote and when/if they lose/regain their sufferage is determined state by state. In some states if you’ve ever been convicted of a felony you can never vote again.
In case you’re wondering, yes, this is a contributor to our racial disparity in prisons.
Wait. I’m French so this made my brain fry.
In the US prisoners have their constitutional rights removed?
Oh it’s worse than that.
This is maybe not well known outside the US - the US Constitution specifically carves out an exception in the 13th amendment - the amendment which made slavery illegal* in the US - which allows convicted criminals to be used as slaves.
We also have in our fifth amendment that anyone can be deprived of their right to life, liberty or property via the due process of the law.
So, via these two aspects of these amendments, you can technically be deprived of any rights you might hold once you are convicted of a crime and placed in prison. Of course, that is not exactly true. You do still have rights and many lawyers make it their livelihoods to try to secure prisoners their rights. At the same time, though, it’s really not much consolation, since we still absolutely do use prisoners as slave labor, and constantly overlook the unjust abuse and killing of prisoners.
* While Illegal on paper, slavery was still carried out for a century after. Emancipation happened in 1863, 13th amendment in 1865, but there were still cases of privately owned slaves as recently as 1963
you should look at America’s use of prison (slave) labor, if you haven’t already
Yup! In America convicted felons are not allowed to vote in federal elections and depending on the law of the state they are not allowed to vote in state or municipal elections either. As a result of these policies a disproportionate amount of black and Latino communities have had their right to vote stripped away.
I checked it out and about 4.4 million US citizens cannot vote (excluding the real 51st state: Puerto-Rico) including 1/19 blacks. That’s crazy, it’s as if the country is setup for a one party system from the get go. You don’t need huge prisoner cohorts to make the 3% difference needed for you to remain in power while maintaining an illusion of democracy.
German here.
Amazing, right? I found out a few years ago. Between this, gerrymandering and 2 right parties, that hasnt been a democracy for a long time.
You have to understand that it’s impressive we got as democratic as we are. Our democracy began with caususes of landowning white men above the age of 21. We were in many ways modeled after the Roman republic, which was also a clusterfuck
Looking how it’s going worldwide I should be impressed it lasted as long as it did.
This was by design and started shortly after the civil war. During reconstruction when the South was effectively occupied there was a decade or so where it looked like black people might actually enjoy some enfranchisement. But then the dirty compromise happened and Jim Crow took over. Suddenly black people were going to jail for the most minor infractions, and if they couldn’t get them to break the law, they just lied and said they did anyway.
So… Does this mean the current sitting American president couldn’t vote in the last election?
He was convicted in a state court, not a federal court, so the rules are a bit different.
Additionally, elections are administered at the state level, rather than federally, so his home state of Florida makes the rules allowing or disallowing his vote.
CNN wrote a piece about it on election day.
It’s a matter of state law, as most election stuff is. Trump could vote because he’s a resident of Florida and Florida only bars people convicted of felonies in Florida from voting, and only then until they have fully completed the punishment laid upon them (meaning both any custodial sentence and any fines). Trump was convicted of felonies in New York, so Florida doesn’t care and Trump could vote.
EDIT: I was incorrect regarding Florida law. Florida also bans people convicted of crimes from voting in Florida if the state where they were convicted would prevent them from voting. This doesn’t impact Trump because New York does not do this.
Not exactly. In Florida with a felony conviction from another state you can’t vote if the conviction prevents you from voting in the state where convicted. So the NY rules apply because It’s a NY conviction.
Listen. In the us, …. Well…
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
-13th Amendment almost abolishing slavery.
Citizens in the US don’t have a constitutional right to vote. States are granted electors based (roughly) on their population that can vote and are given broad authority in how to determine how these electors are selected. Technically a state could decide how to vote based on drawing names out of a hat.
While the original text neglected to specifically outline the right to vote (other than saying the states were responsible for running elections), there are six amendments to the constitution expanding and clarifying the right to vote. One of these amendments is that senators must be elected by popular vote – not out of a hat.
As far as your point about electors, that’s just for the presidential election. Most elections you vote directly for the people running for office. Sometimes you even get to directly vote on policy matters (propositions or referendums).
Yes, I was referring specifically to presidential elections and the electoral college.
they are also legally slaves! the 13th amendment didn’t remove slavery completely:
BFE
In my state, we still have slavery if you’re in prison
https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-alabama-3b2c7e414c681ba545dc1d0ad30bfaf5
It’s called freedom.
Yeah, in theory just most of them. But in practice, even the ones specifically meant for prisoners like the barring of cruel and unusual punishment don’t really apply to prisoners. Hell, theres a specific exception for prisoners in the “no more slavery” amendment.
Voting rights cannot be stripped by race, gender (we’ll see if that sticks in regards to trans people), or landowner status. But if felons can vote and when/if they lose/regain their sufferage is determined state by state. In some states if you’ve ever been convicted of a felony you can never vote again.
In case you’re wondering, yes, this is a contributor to our racial disparity in prisons.
In America, the politicians choose who can vote for them.