- cross-posted to:
- queer@kbin.social
- cross-posted to:
- queer@kbin.social
A second transgender candidate running for a seat in the Republican-majority Ohio House is at risk of being disqualified from the ballot after omitting her former name on circulating petitions.
The Mercer County Board of Elections is set to vote Thursday on whether Arienne Childrey, a Democrat from Auglaize County and one of four transgender individuals campaigning for the Legislature, is eligible to run after not disclosing her previous name, also known as her deadname, on her petition paperwork.
A little-used Ohio elections law, unfamiliar even to many state elections officials, mandates that candidates disclose any name changes in the last five years on their petitions paperwork, with exemptions for name changes due to marriage. But the law isn’t listed in the 33-page candidate requirement guide and there is no space on the petition paperwork to list any former names.
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Really sounds like we just found some old ass rule on the books and we’re using it to discriminate against trans people specifically.
I mean, it makes sense to me. Whether you are trans or not, I feel like people voting for you should be aware if you have changed your name so they can do some googling and make sure you didn’t get into any controversy or shenanigans before you changed your name.
Sure they are specifically using this law to target this person because they disagree with their way of life, but it’s an old law and was passed for reasons before trans issues were even prevalent so the law itself isn’t transphobic.
Using your logic, explain the exception for marriage.
Because an exception to that was taken into account long before now, and trans people were not.
But just because the people that drafted this law didn’t write out an exception for deadnames doesn’t mean it’s inherently transphobic. This was hardly a major topic in the public discourse when these laws were made.
Again, a law that requires voters have transparency is a good thing overall. It needs updated, yes, but the problem here is how it’s being used as a tool to abuse. The law is to prevent fraud, but no fraud is being committed.
The dead name requirement isn’t the issue. There is no way to provide that info, the requirement to provide tha info isn’t documented, and they are attempting to disqualify her over it. The actual fuck?
Exactly, if this was a genuine mistake they’d present opportunities to rectify it and try to ensure it doesn’t happen in the future. The law probably wasn’t meant specifically to hurt trans people but the implementation clearly is.
That didn’t actually answer my question.
The poster says that this law makes sense because voters need to be able to research their candidates. The exception for marriage contradicts that logic - do we not need to research married people? I want to see how they square that circle is all.
It’s more that it’s trying to catch people who’ve changed their names for political purposes.
People who got married and changed their name notionally didn’t do so for political purposes, and are therefore excluded from having to report.
It’s not that it’s to provide blanket history on every candidate for research purposes. It’s a catch to ferret out those who would abuse the name change process to avoid accountability. This gives the public the ability to know if that is occuring.
me on my way to do crimes before getting married so I dont have to declare my name change when running for congress or whatever
Exactly. Thank you. People change their name when they get married all the time. Are we to believe someone would be barred from the ballot if they get married between the petition and the ballot?
Arent marriage certificates public, but not sure if they show your original name or just new one
All name changes are. Judges do them so they fall under the public record. I’m sure you can get yours sealed if you can prove that you’re in danger, but without a restraining order it’s highly unlikely
You need to legally change your name, so that should be public as well.
Not in every state. California has a “confidential” marriage license that isn’t public. We chose that one to stay off mailing lists.
For public office I’m not entirely sure there should be an exception. I’m not sure why there is, other than people might say it’s unfair to women who are the most likely to have had a name change and it’s an extra burden than most men won’t need to do.
If a man changed his name for marriage I would like to be aware before voting as well.
Because an exception for that was taken into account long before now, and trans people were not.
But just because the people that drafted this law didn’t write out an exception for deadnames doesn’t mean it’s inherently transphobic. This was hardly a major topic in the public discourse when these laws were made.
Again, a law that requires voters have transparency is a good thing overall. It needs updated, yes, but the problem here is how it’s being used as a tool to abuse. The law is to prevent fraud, but no fraud is being committed.
I think where the communication is failing here is partly because intent vs effect. Were the people intending to hurt trans people when the law was written? It’s unlikely. Did it? That’s arguable for basically any time before 2015ish, it did create a dangerous and uncomfortable barrier between trans people and serving in the state legislature but it was by no means the biggest until recently. The most influence we had on politics in the 80s was dying, rioting, and when politicians became regular johns. But today’s implementation? They’ve burned every benefit of the doubt and all that remains is that there’s a slim chance some of these people are only enforcing this rule so strictly because she’s a democrat.
So as not to be accused of discriminating against women, who most frequently change name due to marriage.
But that doesn’t fulfill the stated reasoning i.e. the law makes sense because voters need to be able to research candidates. Do married women not have lives before marriage? Of course they do, but the law seems to treat their premarital life as completely separate.
Here’s what I think: the law may not have been intended to exclude trans folk, but it’s definitely sexist, and the intersection of transphobia and sexism can’t be ignored.
The law doesn’t make sense either, because name changes are public record anyway.
Well, when voters see that her husband has the same last name, it becomes pretty obvious she changed her name at marriage.
The law was passed in 1995, before anyone knew what a deadname was. And I do not see it as sexist, especially when the only reason women change names more than men is specifically excluded.
Just because it’s public record (and even then sometimes you can get records sealed) does not mean the information is easily accessible.
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The discussion around deadnaming and necessary or legal record keeping is kind of ongoing, but that’s not what’s happening here.
The point of rules like this is to dissuade deceptive name changes but there’s no reason to view this particular case as deceptive. That’s why it’s going up for review and not disqualifying them immediately. Ideally, Congress would recognize this case doesn’t fit the spirit of that rule and both allow them to campaign while simultaneously setting a precedent or rewriting the rule to exclude deadnames.
As to whether that’ll actually happen, and how fair and impartial the review will be, I think we can all guess it won’t be.
It’s an understandable rule, but this is dishonest enforcement of it.
Yuo didn’t actually explain why marriage should be an exception, though. Why is it understandable? People do marry to get into certain families or escape baggage. It’s less common today but it happens.
But the original law still exempts name change by marriage . To me it feels like name changes not on official public record should be the target, as in a deliberate pseudonym. Still, what fits under that umbrella? Your twitter handle, if it isn’t your legal name would fit, but no one included that since the law was written.
I’m not sure that’s their logic in this case. Has this been used to disqualify cisgender candidates? Is there precedent for this in the last decade?
I wouldn’t think so, especially with how common it is for people of Anglo culture to use a “non-official” name on official documents (in my experience, which is something I never saw with clients of other cultures).
This is a perfect opportunity for you to go do some research to see if it was known some cis-candidate changed their name and they weren’t removed the ballot.
Short of that, declaring unfairness against trans people doesn’t hold much water.
And that being said, people are always looking for a way to disqualify their opponents, and so in sure it’s standard practice to look to see if they’ve violated this law to get them removed.
Although, IIRC, it you changed your name because of marriage, that doesn’t count. So either they have to allow name changes from transitions to be exempt, or include name changes because of marriages to make the law fair, imo.
I see where you’re coming from but your version of fair seems to only disproportionately affect women rather than men. Not as many men change their name due to marriage as do women.
I strongly disagree with the implication that just because it affects one group more than another, that makes it inherently suspect. Is there more to the argument?
I guess not, but I think you and I have very different definitions for fair.
I think we both agree that if something intentionally targets one group over another in an attempt to treat them unfairly, that is unfair. Where I think we differ is that if something doesn’t target some group specifically, but it just happens to affect one group more than another, then I don’t see that as unfair and you, if I interpret your position correctly, see that as a unfair.
However, I suspect I can find a case you would disagree with. Like men are more violent, so laws that punish violence are going to, imo completely fairly, disproportionately affect men. Are laws that punish violence unfair?
The crux of your argument about “make sure you didn’t get into any controversy” is baked into the name change process…
A legal name change in the U.S. for any reason other than marriage or divorce typically requires several steps. First, the applicant must file paperwork that includes the reason for the name change and pay filing fees that can be hundreds of dollars. Then the applicant attends a court hearing where they may need to defend the reasons for their name change. If they are granted a court order for a name change, they will need to go through name change processes for other documents such as driver’s licenses and birth certificates, which require additional fees. Many states also require that the applicant pay to publish their name change in the newspaper, with some states requiring multiple publications.
https://uclawreview.org/2021/10/01/name-changes-do-we-need-judicial-discretion/
Ohio in particular is one such a state that requires you to publish the name change in the newspaper
I had to go through this in NY, it sounds like roughly the same process. It’s the biggest pain in the ass and ended up costing around $600 or so?
That was almost a decade and like six apartments ago, and I still get spam sent to me under my dead name in the mail
Because so many read and have free access to search old legal notices in newspapers.
If you want to argue name changes are public, they should be placed in a publicly searchable database.
You ever heard of a library?
Yes, because voters should have to go a library and pour over old newspapers just to know who they are voting for.
If you want to argue name changes are public, they should be placed in a publicly searchable database.
You mean like this?
That doesn’t go back very far, and the name changes get very lost on all the public bids, foreclosures, and what not.
and the name changes get very lost on all the public bids, foreclosures, and what not.
It is filterable.
And it only goes back 1 month.
Whether you are trans or not, I feel like people voting for you should be aware if you have changed your name so they can do some googling and make sure you didn’t get into any controversy or shenanigans before you changed your name.
Which is what the campaign trail is for. This isn’t an application to take a seat, it’s a petition to run. Ask yourself how you as a voter have ever interacted with one of these forms.
I understand you aren’t defending this action, but theorizing about rational historical uses for this, even uses well outside this incident, only serve to add to the cloud of false rationality that bigots will wrap themselves in to defend this BS.
The old ass rule has a legitimate purpose, but this isn’t it.
Ding ding ding!
The one it originally happened to has a father who is a conservative politician in the state and likely wanted to avoid the hit to his own numbers from people knowing about his child.
When people pointed out it wasn’t enforced, someone was going to use it for everyone else too
I’m going with Hanlon’s Razor on this one and assuming this is just a really stupid bureaucratic failure where a form doesn’t have a box for required info that it doesn’t tell you is required. Curious if there are similar examples for name changes by cis people, which I wouldn’t expect to be newsworthy. Regardless it needs to be fixed.
No, the person you replied to hit the nail on the head.
Believe me, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case, and I 100% think this is wrong.
My take here is that filling out a government form and having it be rejected because you didn’t put required information that isn’t stated as required into a box that the form doesn’t have and getting denied/made to redo it is an extremely plausible scenario. In the case of a cis person being denied this way, it’s a mundane bit of bureaucratic nonsense that nobody would blink an eye at.
The article states:
The law has been in place in some form for decades, though it’s rarely been used and usually arises in the context of candidates wishing to use a nickname.
The fact that this law has been identified as a real problem for trans people and that there is a quote in the article from the (Republican) governor saying “this is bad, we should fix it” strikes me as acknowledgement that this dumb rule is disproportionately affecting trans people and should be fixed.
We have a depressing number of real examples of malicious use of the law against trans people, so all I’m saying is that this one doesn’t seem worth getting fired up about unless there is evidence of actual malicious intent here.
It’s never been used before.
Hanlon’s razor is stupid. What makes you think it’s a good rule?
not really. i read into this a bit, and realllly this is people choosing to fight a losing a battle while attempting a war.
this person could have played by [their] rules, and achieved some success in that arena. instead, they chose to not perform due diligence and/or draw a line in the sand preventing any success. they are losing the good through the the chase of perfect.
this is the second person ive seen who is not seeing that they could achieve something big later, if they play by the ‘silly’ rules now.
if you want to achieve something in government youre going to have to make compromises to get there.
But the law isn’t listed in the 33-page candidate requirement guide and there is no space on the petition paperwork to list any former names.
“I would have filled out whatever was necessary, because at the end of the day, while it would have been a hit to my pride, there is something much more important than my pride, and that’s fighting for this community,” Childrey said.
Make sure you didn’t miss what they actually had to say about it.
ill try!
It isn’t that they don’t want to list previous names it’s that the law was buried and not made apparent to the candidate. It wasn’t on the candidate requirement guide, the petition has no space for former names, many people weren’teven aware of the law’s existence.
While I don’t disagree with the law in theory (listing previous names in normal for things like background checks) it’s clear this law was dug up specifically to try to disqualify the candidate in bad faith.
The candidate is running as a trans Democrat for District 84. The other case you’re referring to is for District 50 which the dems didn’t even contest in 2022.
If they played by the rules, they’d have both lost in a landslide and nobody would have noticed or cared. This news story is the best win they could have hoped for.
Selectively enforcing for a certain segment of the population an unadvertised rule is total copshit
Where do you get the idea there’s selective enforcement?
The fact nobody knew about the law, it’s not mentioned during registration, there is no place for other names on the form, and it’s only been used to exclude trans candidates.
Do you understand the words you’re using? It’s all in the article’s outline.
The fact nobody knew about the law,
Explained by the fact that most people just keep using the same names.
it’s not mentioned during registration
Also explained by the fact that most people just keep using the same names.
there is no place for other names on the form
Since it almost never applies, nobody noticed this.
and it’s only been used to exclude trans candidates.
That’s not true.
Do you understand the words you’re using?
I do, but I’m convinced you don’t.
I have a feeling she will be successful if they DQ her and she challenges it. Interacting with the bureaucracy of the state we are expected to do what reasonable people would do to comply with the rules and regs, such as follow the directions on the forms provided and follow instructions from officials.
It’s unreasonable to expect a person to go digging for extra rules and extra regulations if there is no indication they might exist.
If the form had a place for aliases or prior names, then it would be ok to disqualify anyone who left out a previous name. If there were instructions to provide a list of previous names in a separate document, it would be ok to disqualify. Hell, if the person handing over the document or the website you download it from specifically stated that all previous names shall be disclosed, it would be ok to disqualify.
Most financial documents, for example, specifically ask for that. A lot of government identification applications (passports, drivers licenses, etc) ask for that. So when one encounters a form that doesn’t ask for that, there’s no reason to suspect that it’s necessary.
A good lawyer will have her on the ballot no problem.
Thank you for this reasonable and informed take. A lot of folks up in arms about the identity politics issue, but the real issue is the bureaucracy is not operating in a way that aligns with the law or instructs people to comply. Corrections should be allowed by the candidates and the bureaucracy needs to update procedures.
You know how this is stopped? Good people need to replace those on the board of elections and other positions. This is what Republicans are doing (but with bad people) with great success, while those on the left or opting out, discouraging participation, and guaranteeing loss.
For some reason, half of Lemmy is so confident that waiting (because doing anything more than reading and talking shit on LIBS! doesn’t actually occur) for a massive war between the East and West where hundreds of millions die and whole ecosystems are destroyed is easier and more likely to be successful than voting that they won’t even cast a ballot.
Imagine thinking, “oh, voting won’t work, running for office won’t work, sorry my minority “friends”, I’m not gonna do something as difficult as grocery shopping for you because I’m certain what’s best for you and others like you is to suffer die while I wait for something that’s probably not going to happen.”
To those who think voting or running for office won’t matter, ask yourself why Republicans fight so hard to limit voting and keep people like this candidate out of office?
I do see a lot of justified Lib hate on here, but a lot of the complaints I have seen on Lemmy have the complainer claiming that they do begrudgingly vote for the dems, despite the criticism. I am not a fan of Biden at all, and I think there are tons of better candidates for the job, but I will still vote for him when I am forced to choose between that and Trump.
Just because people criticize the Dems, doesn’t mean that they completely opt out of the voting process.
Those who begrudgingly vote and work to solve problems outside elections the rest of the year are making the wise choice.
I’m not really speaking to those who vote I’m speaking to those who think forfeiting their vote and expecting revolution any day now. Those unwilling to cast a vote in an attempt to protect the vulnerable because they feel entitled to use other’s lives to further their goals.
I’m speaking to tankies, ideological puritans that saw the U.S. kool-aid and were not fooled, but then turned around and drank kool-aid from autocrats pretending to be communists.
At the risk of being dogpiled, I’d like to try to have some discussion on this.
Up front, I want to say that Ohio does a lot of dumb shit, trans rights are human rights, and weaponizing random laws against queer people is bullshit.
It seems clear to me that:
- There is a reasonable motivation for requiring reporting of recent name changes, and the exception for marriage is due to this being extremely common. The article states that this usually came up in the past when people wanted to run with a nickname rather than their given name.
- Not stating this requirement on the form is stupid and bad.
- This is compounded by the lack of a box for a former name, practically guaranteeing that this information is omitted.
- All of this is a problem that should be fixed. The Republic governor has acknowledged this, according to a quote from the article.
What isn’t clear to me is that this is selectively enforced against trans people. We only know about the cases where it has happened to trans people because those are the cases that are being reported on. It is not surprising that a cis person encountering a bureaucratic annoyance because they put the name they go by rather than their birth name on the form was not considered newsworthy.
The vibe I get from this is that this is ragebait where the headline invites the reader to jump to conclusions while the contents of the article suggest that this is actually just a stupid case of the government being bad at making a form (something I have personally encountered a lot).
I’m totally fine with being proven wrong, it wouldn’t be surprising in the slightest if there is malicious intent here. Is there evidence of selective enforcement here?
Yes there is evidence. Just a few days ago a third trans candidate in Ohio ran into the same problem and their board of elections overturned the rejection during their appeal.
So this year you’ve had 3 trans candidates with the same problem. 2 upheld and 1 overturned during the appeals process.
Yep. Third bullet point would solve the issue entirely
I agree. This seems like a prime example of a base rate fallacy.
If all 4 transgender candidates ran afoul of this law, and none of the cisgender candidates did, it’s reasonable to think that it might be an anti-trans law. But, that ignores the base rate of name changes. Probably about 1% of non-trans people change their names, or use names different from their official names when submitting paperwork to get onto a ballot other than women who take a married name – but there’s an explicit carve-out for that because it’s so common. Probably about 99% of trans people change their names or use different names in that same situation. The rate of name changes between the two groups is massively different, so one group is going to encounter the issue much, much more often.
In the past, when trans people simply didn’t try to run for office, this wouldn’t come up very often, so nobody paid much attention to the badly designed forms, etc. But, now a new group of people is starting to run for office, and this group encounters the problem nearly 100% of the time.
And, while it’s also possible to think this might be an old law that’s now being weaponized by the other party against trans people, the article shows that they can’t do that:
Earlier this month, the board received a protest to Childrey’s ballot certification from Mercer County Republican Party Chairman Robert J. Hibner. Because the ballot is for the upcoming March 19 primary, the board ruled Hibner’s protest invalid, as Hibner is from the opposing political party.
There may still be prejudice at play, that trans candidates are under more scrutiny than a white cis male who wanted to go by Jimbo and not James. But, IMO incompetence / bugs in the system is probably a bigger part of the problem.
Would you make a divorced woman use her ex husband’s last name when running for office? Same difference.
That would fall under the exemption due to marriage too, I expect. She should just marry her dog
The point of the law is to prevent things like someone surreptitiously changing their name right before they run for office. E.g. to the same name as another candidate.
It’s all about transparency and preventing dirty election tricks. It was probably created long before the current slate of right wing transphobia
A woman who gets divorced and changes her name is exactly the type of situation that could be artificially manufactured in order to swing an election. For example, if she had the same name as a popular candidate/person (even elsewhere in the US!) before she got married.
Hey, Ohio lawmakers: Get Fucked.
Dang whats in the water in Ohio? . . . Oh right vinyl chloride from freight train accidents.
Oh it’s the Ohio legislature I’m sure they’ll follow the law and the will of the people striving to create a fair democratic government. /s
Nah they’re going to tell her no, and possibly make the law stricter because we’re their present target since their attempt to ban abortion was stopped. Oh they may attempt to gerrymander harder too, but that might not be mathematically feasible
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Fuck off.
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Sounds like another case of “i didn’t read the rules, so it’s not my fault”. Ignorance of the law doesn’t change the law. And it’s not a law “aimed” at trans people. It’s been around far longer than this ‘movement’ has.
As per the excerpt of the article in this post:
But the law isn’t listed in the 33-page candidate requirement guide and there is no space on the petition paperwork to list any former names.
So it seems to me that it’s a law that in practice bans running within five years of (non marriage) name changes. Whether it’s unevenly enforced or not it clearly hits trans people disproportionately.
The “Law” is still on the books. It sucks, but again,Ignorance of the Law doesn’t make it not the Law. Now that it’s getting publicity, maybe people can start following the rules.
It’s nearly impossible to follow the rules when they are specifically being hidden. No one can keep track of every single rule off the top of their head. That’s why we have things like speed limit signs or no parking signs. Hours of operation for a business clearly posted. Etc.
This law is the equivalent of a road going from 55mph to 35mph, but never telling you with a speed limit sign. Then you get pulled over for speeding because the cop knows it’s 35, but fuck you, go to jail, because you expected there to be a speed limit sign when the speed changed, you know. Like on every other road ever.
The fact that there are 33 pages of outlined rules for this when applying says they intentionally put those rules together so people would follow them. It’s not fair for me to know some obscure rule is missing from the 33 pages of rules specifically supplied for me to follow. That is called deception.
They set an expectation by supplying 33 pages of rules. “Here are all the rules” by leaving one out, you’re intentionally trying to fuck people up with it.
Then there being no place to even put a previous name on the form is just fuckery on top.
“Sorry you wrote you previous name on a part of the paper that wasn’t designated for that, so now we have to disqualify you for following the law. Sorry, it’s just the law /shrug”
Again. I’ve said it numerous times. It doesn’t matter. I’m not defending it or even saying it’s “right”. It’s the way it is and if you want in the club you have to play by their rules. They make it this way on purpose. So play by their rules, get in the club and change the rules. But until then, it’s not going to change. So do the due diligence and play the game by the rules. The law is there.
If the official paperwork makes it impossible to follow the law, how then can these people run for office? If the law is on the books, then the forms should be made to include this option. That it doesn’t is akin to entrapment.
I’m not saying it’s “right”, I’m saying if you want to do it, you have to play by their rules. That’s all there is too it.
