Some of those who work forces are the same who burn crosses: many that advocate for not voting from a “progressive” point of view are actually the ones who wouldn’t be in power if you did. They think it’s hilarious when we don’t vote, and they love it.
I used to be alarmed that people were being taken in by this stuff, but I now think the overwhelming majority of people saying it are just shill accounts. For a couple of different reasons, I think the percentage that are actual human accounts that sincerely believe it is extremely small.
I notice they’ve pivoted to just general nihilism about the US economy and the state of things as of a few weeks ago – I think they might have concluded, as I did, that expressing this type of viewpoint and doing such a bad job of it and getting unanimously yelled at in the comments was actually having the opposite effect, highlighting to people how important it is to vote and how it absolutely makes a difference.
I see a lot of people saying “go vote” and not making any effort to understand why non-voters stay home. A lot of the comments here are great examples of that.
That kind of dogmatism is common on political issues, of course, but that doesn’t make it reasonable.
And I understand that people feel strongly. Who wouldn’t? That’s why it’s even more important to try to discuss things. Or not. Sometimes flame wars are entertaining, if not productive. Depends on one’s mood.
This is something that I’ve noticed is worse on Lemmy than it was on Reddit, and it was already pretty bad on Reddit. Insulting people doesn’t get them to support your viewpoint. To convince disillusioned voters to hold their nose and vote blue no matter who, they have to be convinced why their individual vote has an impact in a system where the electoral college can (and regularly does) vote contrary to the popular vote. They have to be shown that it’s worth participating in a system that makes progress slow and difficult but allows evil to be done quickly and with great impact.
Thank you for your perspective. It’s nice to know that you think I couldn’t possibly be a real human being just because I’m a financially impoverished minority in these United States and sick of being told that I need to vote for someone else’s option time and again because it’s the best possible option. Every time the leftist majority makes a decision I want, they don’t look for concessions to bring me in. They just beat me over the head with fearmongering.
If you want voters, appeal to them. I’m not responsible for the message put out by the party not convincing me.
Different user, but it’s obvious to anyone who’s been paying attention that he will just give more tax breaks to the rich and corporations. The wealth divide will grow even further.
And Trump will further destroy protections that Americans rely on.
Most pollution sources in the U.S. are placed in close proximity to residential areas in which POC & impoverished people reside. Trump crippled the EPA and as a result air quality for said people dropped like a rock that was already at the bottom of the ocean.
This isn’t fear mongering, this is the shit we witnessed the first time around. The second time will be just as bad at a minimum.
Even if Trump doesn’t get elected, eventually another republican will. And with goals of theirs looking like that, I don’t know if this country will be safe in the foreseeable future.
Hopefully by Zoomers (currently aged 12 – 27) pushing back hard on it when they actually vote in large numbers. Because, you know, young people don’t vote.
Thus all the social media PsyOps. Like it or not, TikTok is critical to the future of our country.
Zoomers aren’t even 30 yet and the oldest of Alphas (incl. my daughter) are just preteens. That said, you’re right, they are in grave danger of having the wool pulled over their eyes by viral disinformation campaigns; however, they have massive potential to use all that for benevolent purposes. We also have some time and opportunity yet to teach them the importance of civic duty and the critical thinking they will need to combat the gauntlet of scams they’ll be running through in the years to come.
You could join an organization of people trying to fix the system for you and people like you. You’d probably find quite a lot of common cause with the people there, if the Democratic establishment is too worker-hostile for you even in its Bidenized form (which I could understand).
Is the economy okay when everyone knows their costs are close to double what they were five years ago? Like that you lost a vote (however small the margin) literally shows your view is unpopular. But please keep hoping you know and want better for people without doing the work and ignoring the will of people.
“I’m in this Class Project. The whole class is in on it and every time we do a class project half the class tells me that I have to agree with them or else the other half decides how to do the project. I try telling them I will agree with them if they’re open to concessions to me. They just yell harder and threaten that it will be all my fault if I don’t agree with them.”
Your waiting for concessions reminds me of Martin Niemoller’s “First they came for”. You’re waiting for specific focus on your needs, but in the meantime by abstaining from the process you are enabling others suffering.
You sound politically self-centered. It’s fair to feel that way. But perhaps you should participate so that you can sway the process towards a side that is attempting the opposite of harm.
You could work to better the world you live in with the tools at your disposal (voting, for the lesser of two evils). If you don’t, then you only have yourself to blame when no one helps you.
Did it my entire political existence. I’m the one that wasn’t helped. This is your party having no one to blame but themselves for how this is turning out at this point.
Things are not great in the US (and worldwide). But I always get pushback when I encourage people to vote and remind them that this is not North Korea or Russia, your vote still actually matters! Whoever you are, you can help prevent your country’s slide into fascism…
And yet, you’re such a genius at political science that you’ve got essential insights on how voting works that the rest of us aren’t privy to. It is a mystery.
When… it is accurately counted and applied? That should be a low bar, but dictators in the aforementioned countries regularly win with more than 100% of the total vote percentage.
But voting only determines which face of aristocracy is in power?
If someone unacceptable wins, it gets fiat discarded.
Not even hypothetical. Remember that time a bland vaguely well intentioned nerd won an election against the grandson of the guy who was gonna be German ambassador in the business plot government, and they just threw the whole election out and gave it to the third generation fascist oligarch guy?
Do real action, and while theres nothing wrong with spending five minutes to vote, remember it is not politics and won’t save you, get you infrastructure, or stop a bullshit war. Not ever.
So you’re saying the rules are made up and the points don’t matter
Therefore we need even more points than the rules say we need
And the guy making that an unpalatable moral compromise getting raped for six hours straight, instead of a thing you pester your roommates to hop in he car and grudgingly take an hour off to do, that guy isn’t at all at fault.
You shit the bed and failed to fight for the rules, you offer me a shit deal I don’t even want, and you scold me for not lifting a finger? Fuck you.
If Al Gore had won Florida outright, there’d be no recount, no Brookes Brothers riot, no 5-4 decision cancelling democracy, and quite possibly no September 11th attacks. Plus eight extra years of giving a shit about climate change instead of openly funneling no-bid contracts to a third-gen oligarch’s decrepit oil-baron vice president.
All of that evil came from one fucking state being within 500 votes. A situation caused by inane “douche v turd” denial that politics matter, god dammit.
Of course, alternate-universe super geniuses would whine about VP Lieberman trying to outlaw video games or whateverthefuck. I guess that’s as bad as starting two land wars in Asia Minor.
Also gore did win Florida though. The only reason he ‘didn’t win outright’ is because of tampering and tantrums by fascists.
He won. He won by all your fucking rules and if elections mattered, he would’ve been president.
One vote, 500 votes, because George bush didn’t win by any votes, and he got to be president.
“My shit doesn’t work so we just gotta do it harder and if it doesn’t work its your fault for not committing” you know I could say the sane thing about direct action, but that actually does work.
Outright winners don’t need recounts. There’d be nothing to tamper with. No opportunities for fascists on the ground to do direct action, or fascists in power to ignore the close results and make up whatever they like. The election would simply have been won.
But that didn’t happen.
And the reason it didn’t happen is that a lot of people stayed home, thanks to bullshit like yours.
“Outright” is not decorative. Words… mean things. Al Gore won the election, technically. But the margin was so slim that there was a recount. There would not be a recount, if he had won the election… unambiguously.
Thanks. Suddenly I want to support your candidate. The scales have fallen from my eyes. You have enlightened me. I’m forever grateful. How could I not have realized that the decision was “stupid”? I needed no rationalization or evidence, just a person thinking I’m stupid on the internet!
I hear you and want to be on your side during the revolution. I just don’t want a revolution. Conditions are bad right now but violent revolt is a coin flip. The people who will suffer most are the most vulnerable. The children that witness it will suffer for it their entire lives. If we did win, the only faint glimmer of hope will be future generations don’t squander it like their fathers and their fathers fathers and their fathers fathers fathers…
I’m sorry my compassion cripples me from making the extreme but arguably understandable choice of uprising.
We both know you would never suffer having your dumbass opinions changed, you have too much tied up in this. It’s why you’re being so emotional. Maybe you should take a break and go outside.
Relax my friend. Derision is all they know how to use. They were yelled at by MSM until they bought it, and now they want you to see it too. But this is the only way they can speak. Talking down at you with nebulous and broad truthy statements is all they know how to do. Nuance and questioning their faith cannot sweat them, for now derision and arrogance is their “love language”.
So sure, it makes me frustrated too, but have pity not anger, if you can. It’s not like they know any different.
Some of those who work forces are the same who burn crosses: many that advocate for not voting from a “progressive” point of view are actually the ones who wouldn’t be in power if you did. They think it’s hilarious when we don’t vote, and they love it.
Yep
I used to be alarmed that people were being taken in by this stuff, but I now think the overwhelming majority of people saying it are just shill accounts. For a couple of different reasons, I think the percentage that are actual human accounts that sincerely believe it is extremely small.
I notice they’ve pivoted to just general nihilism about the US economy and the state of things as of a few weeks ago – I think they might have concluded, as I did, that expressing this type of viewpoint and doing such a bad job of it and getting unanimously yelled at in the comments was actually having the opposite effect, highlighting to people how important it is to vote and how it absolutely makes a difference.
I see a lot of people saying “go vote” and not making any effort to understand why non-voters stay home. A lot of the comments here are great examples of that.
That kind of dogmatism is common on political issues, of course, but that doesn’t make it reasonable.
And I understand that people feel strongly. Who wouldn’t? That’s why it’s even more important to try to discuss things. Or not. Sometimes flame wars are entertaining, if not productive. Depends on one’s mood.
This is something that I’ve noticed is worse on Lemmy than it was on Reddit, and it was already pretty bad on Reddit. Insulting people doesn’t get them to support your viewpoint. To convince disillusioned voters to hold their nose and vote blue no matter who, they have to be convinced why their individual vote has an impact in a system where the electoral college can (and regularly does) vote contrary to the popular vote. They have to be shown that it’s worth participating in a system that makes progress slow and difficult but allows evil to be done quickly and with great impact.
They have to be given hope, not fear.
Thank you for your perspective. It’s nice to know that you think I couldn’t possibly be a real human being just because I’m a financially impoverished minority in these United States and sick of being told that I need to vote for someone else’s option time and again because it’s the best possible option. Every time the leftist majority makes a decision I want, they don’t look for concessions to bring me in. They just beat me over the head with fearmongering.
If you want voters, appeal to them. I’m not responsible for the message put out by the party not convincing me.
What do you suppose trump will do to help you?
Different user, but it’s obvious to anyone who’s been paying attention that he will just give more tax breaks to the rich and corporations. The wealth divide will grow even further.
And Trump will further destroy protections that Americans rely on.
Most pollution sources in the U.S. are placed in close proximity to residential areas in which POC & impoverished people reside. Trump crippled the EPA and as a result air quality for said people dropped like a rock that was already at the bottom of the ocean.
This isn’t fear mongering, this is the shit we witnessed the first time around. The second time will be just as bad at a minimum.
He’ll also set forth many of the components of Project2025 which, if you haven’t read, is scary to say the least.
I have, and it is terrifying.
Even if Trump doesn’t get elected, eventually another republican will. And with goals of theirs looking like that, I don’t know if this country will be safe in the foreseeable future.
Hopefully by Zoomers (currently aged 12 – 27) pushing back hard on it when they actually vote in large numbers. Because, you know, young people don’t vote.
Thus all the social media PsyOps. Like it or not, TikTok is critical to the future of our country.
I decidedly don’t like it.
For better or worse I’m hoping things like Taylor Swift getting involved helps the situation.
Zoomers aren’t even 30 yet and the oldest of Alphas (incl. my daughter) are just preteens. That said, you’re right, they are in grave danger of having the wool pulled over their eyes by viral disinformation campaigns; however, they have massive potential to use all that for benevolent purposes. We also have some time and opportunity yet to teach them the importance of civic duty and the critical thinking they will need to combat the gauntlet of scams they’ll be running through in the years to come.
I’m not sure you replied to the right person.
I did. you’re claiming voting is pointless, but all abstaining can lead to is trump
I never said Trump would help me. So your question is irrelevant.
Your actions will help elect him. 2+2=4 whether you’re acknowledging it or not
Sounds like you’re exactly what I’ve been going on about this whole time. If you have nothing productive to say we’re done here.
You could join an organization of people trying to fix the system for you and people like you. You’d probably find quite a lot of common cause with the people there, if the Democratic establishment is too worker-hostile for you even in its Bidenized form (which I could understand).
Thank you for the resource. I’ll look into it!
Yah dude. The disillusionment with the current US governmental and economic system, I get that. It makes sense to me.
Is the economy okay when everyone knows their costs are close to double what they were five years ago? Like that you lost a vote (however small the margin) literally shows your view is unpopular. But please keep hoping you know and want better for people without doing the work and ignoring the will of people.
Did you miss the primaries? There’s more than just the president, you know.
What an unhelpful comment.
“I’m in this Class Project. The whole class is in on it and every time we do a class project half the class tells me that I have to agree with them or else the other half decides how to do the project. I try telling them I will agree with them if they’re open to concessions to me. They just yell harder and threaten that it will be all my fault if I don’t agree with them.”
“Have you tried participating in Group Projects?”
Your waiting for concessions reminds me of Martin Niemoller’s “First they came for”. You’re waiting for specific focus on your needs, but in the meantime by abstaining from the process you are enabling others suffering.
You sound politically self-centered. It’s fair to feel that way. But perhaps you should participate so that you can sway the process towards a side that is attempting the opposite of harm.
You could work to better the world you live in with the tools at your disposal (voting, for the lesser of two evils). If you don’t, then you only have yourself to blame when no one helps you.
Did it my entire political existence. I’m the one that wasn’t helped. This is your party having no one to blame but themselves for how this is turning out at this point.
So your life would be better if every time you voted the other politician won? That seems crazy.
Where, when, and how have I ever argued for this? Can you even state my position in a single sentence?
Things are not great in the US (and worldwide). But I always get pushback when I encourage people to vote and remind them that this is not North Korea or Russia, your vote still actually matters! Whoever you are, you can help prevent your country’s slide into fascism…
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Tell me you’re not a woman in Arizona who has an ectopic pregnancy, without telling me etc
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There’s an image which explains what I’m talking about
It is somewhere
It’s very near
If you search, I think you will be able to locate it. Don’t give up
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And yet, you’re such a genius at political science that you’ve got essential insights on how voting works that the rest of us aren’t privy to. It is a mystery.
Bro, like have you not even heard that both sides tho?
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When… it is accurately counted and applied? That should be a low bar, but dictators in the aforementioned countries regularly win with more than 100% of the total vote percentage.
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I can explain it to you, I can’t understand it for you.
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Bot, troll, whatever: blocked.
Hah you’re doing the thing
Killing in the name of
I wonder how many get this reference.
But voting only determines which face of aristocracy is in power?
If someone unacceptable wins, it gets fiat discarded.
Not even hypothetical. Remember that time a bland vaguely well intentioned nerd won an election against the grandson of the guy who was gonna be German ambassador in the business plot government, and they just threw the whole election out and gave it to the third generation fascist oligarch guy?
Do real action, and while theres nothing wrong with spending five minutes to vote, remember it is not politics and won’t save you, get you infrastructure, or stop a bullshit war. Not ever.
–
That shit was only possible thanks to “both sides” horseshit keeping turnout low and results close.
You are part of the problem.
So admit the points are made up and the rules don’t matter?
I wish you people meant things when you say words.
That’s my line!
‘Your actions cause the problems you’re pointing to to excuse your actions.’
‘So you admit there’s problems.’
Shoo, enabler.
So you’re saying the rules are made up and the points don’t matter
Therefore we need even more points than the rules say we need
And the guy making that an unpalatable moral
compromisegetting raped for six hours straight, instead of a thing you pester your roommates to hop in he car and grudgingly take an hour off to do, that guy isn’t at all at fault.You shit the bed and failed to fight for the rules, you offer me a shit deal I don’t even want, and you scold me for not lifting a finger? Fuck you.
‘I’m the one who gets to complain about words meaning things! Also I’m going to call feeling icky about voting, gang rape, because that sounds worse.’
You are why rules about ‘never be mean, ever’ cause more trolling than they solve. Get out of my inbox.
If Al Gore had won Florida outright, there’d be no recount, no Brookes Brothers riot, no 5-4 decision cancelling democracy, and quite possibly no September 11th attacks. Plus eight extra years of giving a shit about climate change instead of openly funneling no-bid contracts to a third-gen oligarch’s decrepit oil-baron vice president.
All of that evil came from one fucking state being within 500 votes. A situation caused by inane “douche v turd” denial that politics matter, god dammit.
Of course, alternate-universe super geniuses would whine about VP Lieberman trying to outlaw video games or whateverthefuck. I guess that’s as bad as starting two land wars in Asia Minor.
Also gore did win Florida though. The only reason he ‘didn’t win outright’ is because of tampering and tantrums by fascists.
He won. He won by all your fucking rules and if elections mattered, he would’ve been president.
One vote, 500 votes, because George bush didn’t win by any votes, and he got to be president.
“My shit doesn’t work so we just gotta do it harder and if it doesn’t work its your fault for not committing” you know I could say the sane thing about direct action, but that actually does work.
Outright winners don’t need recounts. There’d be nothing to tamper with. No opportunities for fascists on the ground to do direct action, or fascists in power to ignore the close results and make up whatever they like. The election would simply have been won.
But that didn’t happen.
And the reason it didn’t happen is that a lot of people stayed home, thanks to bullshit like yours.
He did win outright! Al gore won the election outright!
“The rules are made up and the points don’t matter so anyone who causes us to not get as many points as possible is a Nazi”
And also the people making giving you points a massive moral compromise that makes my stomach turn isnt at all to blame.
“Outright” is not decorative. Words… mean things. Al Gore won the election, technically. But the margin was so slim that there was a recount. There would not be a recount, if he had won the election… unambiguously.
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He won by so little, we didn’t know for sure. Hence the recount. As opposed to-- y’know what, you don’t speak English. Goodbye.
“I don’t think poor minorities who are tired of picking ‘the least evil option’ exist.”
Well you can kindly go fuck yourself.
Valid emotions behind a stupid decision don’t make it less stupid.
Thanks. Suddenly I want to support your candidate. The scales have fallen from my eyes. You have enlightened me. I’m forever grateful. How could I not have realized that the decision was “stupid”? I needed no rationalization or evidence, just a person thinking I’m stupid on the internet!
I hear you and want to be on your side during the revolution. I just don’t want a revolution. Conditions are bad right now but violent revolt is a coin flip. The people who will suffer most are the most vulnerable. The children that witness it will suffer for it their entire lives. If we did win, the only faint glimmer of hope will be future generations don’t squander it like their fathers and their fathers fathers and their fathers fathers fathers…
I’m sorry my compassion cripples me from making the extreme but arguably understandable choice of uprising.
We both know you would never suffer having your dumbass opinions changed, you have too much tied up in this. It’s why you’re being so emotional. Maybe you should take a break and go outside.
Relax my friend. Derision is all they know how to use. They were yelled at by MSM until they bought it, and now they want you to see it too. But this is the only way they can speak. Talking down at you with nebulous and broad truthy statements is all they know how to do. Nuance and questioning their faith cannot sweat them, for now derision and arrogance is their “love language”.
So sure, it makes me frustrated too, but have pity not anger, if you can. It’s not like they know any different.