Replacing a dishwasher. Most of the mid-range options now come with fucking Wi-Fi. Found a model I liked, no info in manual and support from Samsung was of course, useless since it wasn’t already in the manual and wanted to keep talking about their exciting “smart things” app. gag.
I saw a youtube video of a guy disconnecting wifi cable on a fridge. I’m fine doing that if I have to open up the board but it’ll probably be smaller than the fridge and who knows if it’ll be helpfully labled like the one in the video was. Internet searching showed me there may be oven keypress combinations to turn wi-fi radio on/off. Anyone have anything similar/advice for Samsung appliances, specifically dishwashers?
If you don’t hook it up to your network, what’s the problem?
It may try to connect to open wifi networks instead, maybe
Honestly asking; Why would I care if my dishwasher connected to some random Wi-Fi. What does it know about me? Someone gonna hack it?
There have been instances of network-enabled devices updating to put existing features behind a paywall, unilaterally changing the terms of service (can’t use device anymore until you agree to new terms), and simply removing features that you paid for when you bought the device.
Why does a dishwasher need wifi?
So you can get an alert when the dishes are done.
Not justifying the feature itself, but there is a purpose.
Mine just plays a jingle lol
How is that legal? Could u buy a dishwasher then 3 months later it starts asking for a small fee per wash?
I know these things happen but usually you are informed in advance and bought the product at a big discount
It will be buried somewhere in the terms & conditions.
Especially when the terms and conditions say that they can update the terms and conditions at any time.
It probably requires an app to monitor the wash cycle. All they have to do is start charging a subscription to use the app. If people bought the dishwasher because they would get alerts when their dishes were clean, now they have to pay a recurring fee.
Roku pushed an update to their TVs requiring owners to agree to a new terms of service. There was no “disagree” button, and the TV wouldn’t work until people accepted the changes.
This is such a new problem that it’s never been challenged in court.
Good point
If you’re asking in earnest, the last decade has shown for profit corps know no bounds in using technology to extract, poorly protect, and often aggregate and then will make any attempt to monetize possible–often retroactively. While a dishwasher might not have much data in itself to exploit, if your internet connected TV, Car or phone which is constantly scanning for nearby WI-FI items or networks decided to start cataloguing them…well then that would just be a Tuesday for Google, Ford or Sony right?
The more data points, the worse. More breaches, more creepy facts about us floating around in some creepy company or regime’s stockpile of data to be used, unilaterally against me. Or maybe the next company to buy the current company I’m happy with. Or the next regime that decides people like me aren’t full humans. Between your computer and phone, most people’s lives are somewhat laid bare, but add in car tracking which auto companies have stuck their funnel into during the last 5 years, add in appliances, put Wi-Fi if your shower handle…again the people adding Wi-Fi to things like a dishwasher that don’t need it have only one thing to gain, monetizing your data and selling it to someone who wants to control you in some way.
Someone within 350 feet of this open WiFi network I hacked onto is low on rinse aid
Oh no, my privacy is ruined!
Like what? Home wifi requires passwords.
Guest networks don’t necessarily require passwords.
Then require one. You’re acting like this is an unavoidable thing. You just simply don’t connect the appliance to the Internet.
It’s not difficult.
Some people live in apartments.
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Neighbors, bro. You can’t control networks you don’t own.
Are you really this obtuse, or is this just an act?
I can’t make my neighbors require one.
At least in some places, having open wi-fi without KYC is illegal, so the neighbors aren’t going to do this - passwordless is not the default.
I can’t make my neighbours obey the law either
Home wifi requires a password. This isn’t 1990
It as a protocol does not and has never required a password. Nor have routers ever required it.
What router are you using that legit requires a password for access?
Explain the 30+ million open WiFi networks on Wigle if WiFi networks require a password.
Ok dude.
Have you ever set up one of these devices? It’s not a case of ‘find my wifi, enter in passkey, connected’ they literally broadcast an unsecured ad hoc network that you connect to and configure from.
If you never connect it it will sit there blaring an unsecured wifi with access to its core configuration forever
This shows so much privilege. Apartments, townhomes, condominiums. Sometimes you’re scrolling through pages of Wi-Fi networks from your neighbors looking for your own SSID right next to the device.
Yeah, you can’t do shit about open Wi-Fi networks near you and promiscuous devices.
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I had to buy a washing machine recently. I asked if I could get one without the smart features (this was a half joke thinking there was no shot in hell, but at least I got to express disinterest). They looked in the back to find that they did have the previous model. They said it was basically the same but without the smart features—then they said it would still be under the same warranty & would cost me $150 less. I got real lucky that day—& the fact that I need a new TV has caused me dread knowing you basically can’t find ’em anymore.
Literally the same, just bought a new washing machine. Most are now smart enabled. I don’t get it at all… Like why does a washing machine need to be on the internet at all.
You’re washing is done… Yeah I know I can no longer hear it.
Start it later, there is a delay mode.
I physically have to be in front of the washer to load it. Why would I then use an app.
We paid a premium for one without Wi-Fi
Sceptre has Non smart TVs. May be the only ones left to be honest
Don’t connect the TV to the internet. Buy a settop box like a shield TV and stream through that.
Why folks always say this as if it won’t connect to your neighbor’s open WiFi? Some of these are being built with cellular access like those Nspresso machines—or LoRa—so you can’t just not connect it. These devices don’t need any network access.
At least with a TV you can actually turn off the WiFi and just not connect a network cable to it. In my case the TV periodically tries to connect and prompts me to check the network settings, so I’m fairly sure its not trying to randomly connect to an open WiFi network. YMMV I suppose. A decent workaround would be to set up a diff router or ssid and just blackhole that network from getting online at all. But that can be more technical than some people are comfortable with.
Speed Queen is still making dumb albeit electronic models. Bit pricey but solid. Or get yourself an old one off Craigslist and call someone to refurb it. Those will often outlast anything else.
AFAIK, the Samsung BEC-H series commercial monitors don’t have the “smart” features (at least enabled, probably still exist under the hood somewhere).
Don’t connect it to anything.
Not even power and water supplies?
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I have a smart tv, washer, and dryer. None of them are connected to a network. They can’t do anything “smart” without a network. You don’t need to take apart or disconnect anything. In fact, doing so could cause problems if you nick the wrong wire or component.
Just leave it be and you should be fine.
Even owning Smart devices and having them always plugged in may potentially be a vector, Rob did a good breakdown on how this is achieved.
https://odysee.com/@RobBraxmanTech:6/radio:64
Did you know that your IOT devices are secretly communicating with each other? This includes IOT devices that are not in your home. Did you know that what your IOT devices do may be transmitted to third parties? Did you know that your TV may also have the capability and may currently be transmitting your activity far and wide?
There are secret communications occurring between IOT devices using protocols like Bluetooth LE, Zigbee, Thread, 802.15, and LoRa that you likely didn’t expect or was not explained when you bought these devices.
Just like Amazon Echo has been conscripted to work with the Amazon Sidewalk Mesh network, other networks are in operation
Good point. I did not consider this. Thank you.
If I did that half my neighbors would own my devices in a week because they like transmitting open access points for setup purposes. I just connect them anyway and then just block them from outbound access at the router if I want to restrict them. That way I can be sure. Then I can use my Homeassistant server to control them from behind the firewall locally if they have that capability.
You make a terrifyingly interesting point. I did not consider this. Thank you.
Your easiest solution is to just not connect it to your network.
If you want to really lock it out, depending on your router you can use the firewall to drop any packets to and from the device’s IP.
For a lot of devices that will leave an unsecured wifi network on that will
- allow any passerby to just set it up under their account and potentially mess with it
- use up valuable WiFi channels you might want to use for your own network
I have an old tplink router i connect shit to that i then turn off
I chose the second option after my new fridge got too friendly with my MIL’s phone. Nothing against her, but I didn’t want to give it the chance to do that with a stranger.
Won’t the neighbor’s kid just hack into it and flood your kitchen, then?
No, better to disable it physically
That’s not how dishwashers work.
Thats what people said about internet connected blenders, until the neighborhood kid hacked into it and used it to burn down their neighbors house
Source? Sounds like an interesting read.
It was some CCC talk, but it wasn’t a child and it wasn’t a blender. Might have been a Tesla, can’t remember
Anyway if a manufacturer is dumb enough to put WiFi in a dishwasher or blender, its not safe to assume that someone with too much time on their hands won’t be able to make it flood or catch fire.
Another (less good) option might be connecting it to a dummy wi-fi that goes nowhere.
Don’t worry, OP. Samsung makes absolute dog shit appliances, so you’ll be replacing that dishwasher sometime in the next 2 years anyways.
model #? You can usually find enough info from the FCC id, which often has pictures of insides, especially radio stuff like.
Edit: nvm, I had missed the Costco link. I’ll see if I can find anything.
Thank you, the FCC filing is a good idea, if you find something useful that would be great.
I couldn’t find it using the model number on fccid.io but it might be that the dishwashers themselves aren’t FCC certified and they only send whatever wireless board they add to it.
Usually can find anything that has radio signals with teardown pics, etc.
It’s funny a good open source washing machine with wifi could be amazing, would allow for so much more control by letting you modify programs and view diagnostics but proprietary hardware is never going to let you do the good stuff because the you wouldn’t need to buy the more expensive but physically almost identical models.
Disable it on the router. That way if you’re lucky it thinks it’s connected and so won’t constantly bother you about it.
Mine had an off button (key combo). Check the manual of the model before purchase. Never had to give it another thought.
I wouldn’t trust that. Better to remove it physically
I have a network scanner on my phone. It’s off. You may take the bother of physically disconnecting it if you want, but personally I’ll keep my warranty.
Why do you care if it has wifi if it’s not connected to a network?
u/logos asked the same thing, I answered in the thread.
Gotcha. As an aside, the syntax to refer to a user is
@username@instance, for example mine is @JackbyDev@programming.dev.Thank you for the syntax, I didn’t know that. Wish that stuff was in a help box in text entry field or something so it would be quickly accessible so we could all learn it faster.
commenting for tracking. I’ve been searching for the same.
Seems a little over the top. The AP will consume additional power. Just restricting Internet access via router should be way easier.
If you can find where the antenna is, you can cover it with some metal tape to kill the signal. Or wrap the whole thing on a metal cage or foil, basically put the thing in a faraday cage.
I have a feeling they’d put the antenna in the front panel though, so that solution may not be super aesthethic if that’s the case.
