And no, I don’t mean, the supposed “Playful Bullying” (that will upset me too, same with being teased), or being even lightly prodded.
The other day, I was questioned on whether I “actually am a leftist”, by a friend. After I nervously answered fairly basic questions such as believing in healthcare and collective labor, they weren’t convinced. Ever since that day, I felt like I couldn’t be a leftist, especially since I lost any confidence in my ability to be “better” according to that person’s standards. If I couldn’t satisfy their standards that one time, what would be the point of trying to read theory and trying again? Yes I admit, I haven’t tried to read theory. I have no confidence that I would do it correctly.
So, I was already completely lacking in confidence in actually being a good enough leftist. But after that incident where I was bullied and picked on, even for a few minutes… Something in me gave up trying to keep up with the people on this website. It also made me fear and lose confidence in trying, for fear that I would encounter other “Secret Tests of Character” like that.
I feel as though in terms of personality, I am too quiet, too shy, and I have too little to say or contribute anyways, to feel at home here. It feels as though speaking the loudest and having lots to say is what matters the most here, and that is something I cannot do.
So, given that everyone insists “read theory”, which I haven’t been able to, does this mean I am not at the standards I seem to see here?
Yes I admit, I haven’t tried to read theory. I have no confidence that I would do it correctly.
two points. first, the only incorrect way to read theory is to not read it. even if you don’t understand 100% of a book – hell, even if you only understand 25% of a book the first time you read it – you can still get a lot out of it and become a better, more informed leftist. second, theory is only one side of the coin. what makes a good leftist is a combination of theory and praxis that inform each other, so if you’re still really that worried about not being able to read theory, getting out and actually contributing to a leftist cause will both help you feel like you’re a Good Leftist and make reading theory more approachable, bc praxis informs theory and vice versa
Death to America
The other day, I was questioned on whether I “actually am a leftist”, by a friend. After I nervously answered fairly basic questions such as believing in healthcare and collective labor, they weren’t convinced. Ever since that day, I felt like I couldn’t be a leftist, especially since I lost any confidence in my ability to be “better” according to that person’s standards. If I couldn’t satisfy their standards that one time, what would be the point of trying to read theory and trying again? Yes I admit, I haven’t tried to read theory. I have no confidence that I would do it correctly.
This is why you’re supposed to join an org. Most serious orgs have an onboarding process where you’ll be taught basic precepts and foundational texts of the ideology embraced by that particular org. You’ll also be assigned to do work by the org, and be build up to become someone who embodies the ideals of the org. You have imposter syndrome because you haven’t done anything to advance the emancipatory project, and you haven’t done anything to advance the emancipatory project because you are not part of an org.
Unless you’re some rich multimillionaire quietly funding underground Maoist insurgent cells, you’ll not be able to contribute unless you’re part of an org. If there are no suitable orgs near you, your responsibility is to either create your own org or support other orgs. Creating your own org is self-explanatory in a “draw the rest of the fucking owl” sense. Supporting other orgs can range from financially supporting them to doing agiprop for them. Even if you’re the only leftist in a sea of Christofascists, you can still contribute to the cause. But you can’t do this on your own. None of us can.
This is the least serious leftist space. You will be just fine here. If you make a bad take, you may get called out on it. But the correct response is to just investigate what they are saying and adjust your views accordingly. That’s all it takes to be a “good” leftist; the only “bad” leftist is someone who refuses to do that navel-gazing, refuses to critically examine their own views.
Thank you, user with a pig shitting on its balls as their profile picture, very cool!
We’re all liberals here, so no worries
The important thing is to engage in a continual process of learning and self-education, so that you can engage in correct practice. Liberals don’t have to do this because a. we’re constantly bathed in propaganda that disseminates their worldview and b. they don’t want to change the world in any meaningful way. You can pick up a lot by just hanging out with other leftists here and listening and chatting, but eventually you will want to read theory to better understand why they think the the things they do. Better yet, join an org irl, engage in political education through them and put it into practice.
At the end of the day, leftism isn’t something you are, it’s something you do.
If you hate capitalism and injustice with a burning passion that’s all you need to be leftist in my book.
@mathemachristian@hexbear.net already linked my basic beginner guide in this thread so I won’t spam it. Instead, I’ll leave you with advice for if you never read theory, as much as I think you should.
Don’t speak on what you haven’t thoroughly investigated. If that is, say, whether or not revolution is required, don’t immediately say yes or no, or even say that you think revolution is required but aren’t sure. This sounds mean, but I promise, this right here will eliminate the vast majority of any real bullying you could come across. You can learn the answers to those questions by reading theory
but also by listening to others.Secondly, browse effort-posts and the News Mega. Just see what people are saying, and try to look up online what you aren’t familiar with.
Third, just have fun in the general megathread and hobby comms like c/games! Those are just comfy and cozy.
No, you won’t be bullied as long as you act in good faith. It’s a good sign that you want to grow and learn and are willing to ask questions.
In my book, you’re a leftist if you want the end of capitalism. The rest of theory is just for learning the how and the why.
For something that’s easier to read, I’d suggest Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti.
Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti.
Cannot recommend a book more. Dead simple. Huge impact. Best bang for buck read imo, especially if you still have lingering apprehension about AES states.
Nah, I don’t meet theirs as well. Just be economically socialist, superstructurally progressive, and foreign policy-wise anti-western
Just learn a handful of quotes and drop them here and there in discussions, no one will notice that you haven’t read theory
20 yards of linen (don’t laugh) fuck kautsky
Did I do it right?
You’re the only leftist on this site.
That can’t be right, because I’m the only leftist on this site.
Marxism-Leninism distilled into its purest form right there.
Marxism-Linenism
No one reads theory, they just tell people to read theory. One day someone will actually read theory and tell us what the hell we’re all doing here.
Both are true
Everybody thinks they’re the vanguard, nobody thinks they’re the proletariat. We need a whole hell of a lot more of one than the other.
The vanguard is the proletariat. They’re not separate from the masses, but rather the most politically advanced and organized section of it
The first among equals as it were. Let’s put it this way, artists and ditch diggers are equally important in a socialist society but for some reason everyone wants to be artists.
The first among equals as it were.
Wow its literally like Animal Farm 1984
artists and ditch diggers are equally important in a socialist society but for some reason everyone wants to be artists.
Literal anticommunist talking point, to wit:
What are you talking about, man? You seem to be thinking that a vanguard party is a bunch of pointy head intellectuals pushing up their glasses. It’s just the people who are politically aware and actively engaging in organized class struggle. Do you think a ditch digger cannot join or would not be welcomed into a vanguard party?
Read some Mao and free your mind from anticommunist State Department talking points
All I know is the true value of linen.
The true value of linen was the coats we made along the way.
It’s an excellent cooling material; even other organics can’t compare
The value of linen is equal to the amount of labor involved in the production and transportation of it. No more, no less.
Socially necessary labor value plus the natural value of the linen, as nature is a source of value as well as labor.
free gifts are free so they’re worth nothing
The whole class has been ignoring the homework? It was all in the syllabus, and I kept reminding you to do the reading!
You all know the final isn’t being graded on a curve, right? It’s covering all of the material from the whole year.
Aw man, professor sounds mad, if we cant pass this class we’ll be turning linen into coats our whole lives… We need a study montage set to The Distance by Cake! stat!
Lemmygrad is the good class where everyone does the homework.
Hexbear is where the slacker class clowns get placed.
Lemmygrad is the Mike Wazowski and Hexbear is the James P. Sullivan, got it.
As an admin you’re expected to be part of the vanguard party that cleanses us of our false consciousness.
So… They weren’t actually being serious? And were just repeating a phrase all this time!? Another incident of me being Literal Minded…
He’s joking. People definitely read theory. But can I let you in on a little secret? I only read like, the first 40 pages of Capital vol 1, said “oh wow that’s just impossible for me to read right now” and watched a bunch of videos from The Marxist Project so I could grasp the most important concepts. I’ve focused on reading about history instead, because it’s a lot more palatable for me, and I think in most conversations with other people it’s most helpful to know a lot about history and a little about the economic laws that govern history, than to be an expert on those laws but not know enough details about history to make convincing arguments to people. Of course, once I feel more comfortable I’ll give the big book another crack!
I recommend that if you hate capitalism and feel like all this crap is made up BS, you should do something similar to break into leftism. Read something easier and more modern; anything Parenti, Chomsky, Vincent Bevins, etc. then you can complement your understanding of history with a bit of understanding of Marxist theory, you can read a bit of Mao or Stalin, who actually made some very nice essays explaining dialectical materialism and its application. You can look up lectures on Marx, I recommend David Harvey, Michael Hudson, and Richard Wolff. Just take it at your own pace, it’s not like there’s an exam to pass.
I’ve read all three volumes of Capital, and I can confidently say reading it is something you should do eventually, but it would be counter productive to read it without already having a fairly good understanding of most of it’s core concepts and having built up a tolerance for dry, difficult reading. Starting with it is the theory equivalent of trying to read Ulysses as your first novel or playing battletoads as your first videogame.
Also, I’ve talked to people who haven’t read it in its entirety but definetly understand it better than I do.
There is a new translation of it into English that just came out that’s supposed to be a lot easier to understand but I personally haven’t checked it out yet.
Paul Reitter’s recent translation is really good! I think it’s a much more approachable translation for modern readers, and it’s the only translation in English that’s based on that last (4th) German edition of the book.
Having said that, my personal copy of Capital is from 1906 with some beautifully penciled marginalia from the comrade who originally owned it, and I can’t bring myself to replace it or justify buying yet another copy just to loan out or reference corrections that were already penciled in to my copy in the margins.
That is so cool.
I recently picked up the 1986 book Prisoners of the American Dream by Mike Davis because someone posted the first page on twitter. Haven’t read that much of it but based on what I have read it seems like a very approachable book for leftists looking to get into the reading.
Also on Hexbear’s literature comm there’s a post (https://hexbear.net/post/109424) directing one on how to access the ‘Socialist Theory Reading Group’ on the education site Perusall. The weekly reading group portion of that has fallen into disuse but the library has a bunch of archived PDFs that are all readily accessible and can be easily downloaded. For instance there’s three titles I can see from Parenti, two from Chomsky, and The Jarkarta Method by Vincent Bevins.
The Perusall might not be the most user-friendly thing out there for a newbie looking for a beginner’s reading list, but I just wanted to mention it.
Chomsky
A lot of people here have read theory, but also a lot of have not. Both categories will tell you to read theory. The point is more telling people to not argue out of their ass and be knowledgeable.
I’m being a little flip honestly. Ive read 50% of capital (about 500 pages) and haven’t picked it up in months. This shit was written in the late 1800s, it’s not easy to do. I don’t fault anyone who hasn’t read it. There are a lot beginners lists out there to get you stated. But that said, anyone who seriously talks down to you for not having read theory is not a good comrade and could benefit from some self critique.
It’s a gag, a lot here do, but also a lot dont or haven’t but mean to. There’s like…a LOT of books and different viewpoints and stuff it’s a pretty robust subject and so even amongst the avid readers no one has read everything.
Being gatekept on being a leftist is extremely leftist, the more times you’ve been purity tested the more leftist you are. Doesn’t matter if you actually pass those purity tests, mind you, but it means you’ve stuck around long enough to not have given up and succumb to becoming a lib or fash.
As for theory, you can start with listening to Dolly Parton’s seminal “9 to 5” as a primer on communism
Old country is excellent theory
Not everybody is a debate bro. That’s okay.
Not everybody comes to the conclusion that being a communist or socialist or humanist or antifascist through rigorous theory reading and debate. It can be okay to take these things on faith alone if that’s all you’ve got right now.
Learning theory and reading/watching debates can be good for hardening your position against potential self doubt. Learning theory can be good in showing you that “Nope, nothing that I’m thinking or feeling is new. I’m not alone. Here’s what others that came before me learned and have passed down as an act of solidarity with a future that they will never see.” But it can be difficult to get started, keep up with it, or retain what the lessons were. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Shit, I’ve spent the last two weeks trying to read Marx’s, Capital - Volume 1. Wanna know how far I am?
Page 39.
…
…
…
And the actual text doesn’t start until page 27 of the copy I’m reading.
You’re fine comrade. We’re all libs here.
Also there isn’t like an exam for leftism. Being an educated leftist is always better but if you say you’re a comrade, you are to me until proven otherwise and that’s done through actions
You’re saying I bought a whole stack of scantrons for nothing?
I’m sure you can standardized test something with em
‘having lots to say is what matters the most here, and that is something I cannot do.’
- something you cannot do… YET.
my first year or two of leftism was hanging out in online forums and reading ‘easy’ theory by Chomsky and other similar palatable modern theorists, who aren’t exactly Marxist with a capital M, but have valid critiques of capitalism. Naomi Klein, David Graeber, even Michael Moore.
I’d recommend ‘How The World Works’ by Chomsky. The title makes it clear what it’s about. It’s my go to recommendation to anyone who’s curious. The whole book is taken directly from his radio appearances and the like, so it’s totally conversational and written for maximum digestibility. Each chapter is very short, sometimes even just a page or two iirc. He gets into the big debates, without throwing jargon around.
For me, it was illuminating, and made me pretty angry with the world and the lies I’d been told. This drove me to go further and further. I found what interests me most: imperialism. I’ve spent about 3 years reading about it, and will probably read about it until the day I die. I can’t get enough of it. I’ve even written plays about it. I could talk about it for days on end. And yet three years ago, I probably couldn’t have even put Congo or Venezuela on a map.
All this is to say that it’ll all come to you. And that I think a knowledge of imperialism is the key to unlocking Marxism.
even Michael Moore.
Yeah I read theory (Stupid White Men)
for an American he’s actually quite smart if you ignore the last 10 years of his career
We only bully bastards, subhuman crackers, and shitheads who side with the oppressor over the people and behave like reactionary/neoliberal scum on this website. The “standard” here is not being a bootlicker
I was questioned on whether I “actually am a leftist”, by a friend.
“UR NTO A LEFTIST BCUZ I DIDNT SEE U CITE KONDRATIEV WAVES IN UR RESPONSE”Your friend sounds like an elitist wanker who has dreams of becoming an academic.
