Depending on how the next four years go I’m on the fence between Bush Jr. and Trump but I’d like to hear from you

Edit:

Top 10 suggestions so far (unordered):

  • Andrew Jackson
  • Andrew Johnson
  • George W. Bush Jr
  • Ronald Reagan
  • Richard Nixon
  • James K. Polk
  • Woodrow Wilson
  • James Buchanan
  • Franklin Pierce
  • Donald J. Trump
  • Taalnazi@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    Plenty of choice. In my view, most presidents were rambling reeking right wingers in some way or other, save for FDR and Teddy Roosevelt, who were the two presidents I’d actually call capable and outspoken on civil rights (rather than just pragmatical like Lincoln). They did have their blemishes, but less than e.g. Andrew Jackson.

    So many presidents were terrible for one people or another.

    Andrew Jackson? Held hundreds of slaves and quite literally led an ethnic expulsion against Native Americans (the Trail of Tears).

    Lincoln? Mostly good, but did not forbid slavery in the form of penal labour. If one were to abolish slavery, why not go the full mile?

    Wilson? Rabid antisemite, pretty much.

    Hoover? Might’ve tried to tackle the Great Depression – but did so by allying with large coorporations, effectively being corrupt and choosing bribery.

    Truman? Dropped nukes and set the stage for “we support any government that hates people being remotely leftist”.

    Nixon - corrupt and wanted to sidestep the rule of law, all for his own profit: to stay in power. Other than thaf, decent, but that’s a big “other than that”.

    Reagan - enough said. Ultracapitalist, misleading, made the US economy far worse by accruing debt like there’s no tomorrow, and shoving it onto the poor – typical oligarch behaviour! Militaristic, power-hungry. And no, he did not end the Cold War: Gorbachov did.

    JFK: socially pretty good, actually. But economically, the cutting of the top rates made the richest keep more money. At least it wasn’t down below 50%, but still. Had that happened, I think the tax rates would’ve allowed wealth accumulation.

    And so on.

    So, in my view, it’s hard to focus on who is the worse, and better to rather focus on what is the best. Ted would be my candidate. Not only social progress, but also economical, and in a way that favour the worker – and he also was environmentally aware. That is a good president.

    • Zyratoxx@lemm.eeOP
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      3 hours ago

      Would that have changed much (Except for his name & face being literally everywhere in the US) or would they just have taken another founding father as their idol?

  • Today@lemmy.world
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    8 hours ago

    I would hire nucular George every day for the next 4 years to get rid of the orange dipshit.

  • watson387@sopuli.xyz
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    12 hours ago

    Ronald Reagan did more damage to this country than any president before or after him.

  • BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee
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    10 hours ago

    andrew jackson (or johnson can never remember which) for the trail of tears. absolutely awful

    • OmnipotentEntity@beehaw.org
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      6 hours ago

      Andrew Jackson was Trail of Tears, but I actually think Andrew Johnson was arguably worse. He was Lincoln’s Democrat vice president (he was brought on to help “balance the ticket” instead of sticking with his strongly abolitionist first term VP Hannibal Hamlin), who started dismantling reconstruction and giving the power back to the former slaveowners.

      You can pretty much lay Jim Crow at his feet.

  • KurtVonnegut [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    11 hours ago

    Woodrow Wilson was so racist that he was quoted in an epigraph for “The Birth of a Nation.” You know, the 1915 movie about how awesome the KKK was, which became the first true “blockbuster” film and which led to a huge resurgence in KKK activity. Not only that, but Woodrow Wilson also personally invited the filmmakers to screen the movie in the White House - the first movie ever screened in the White House, by the way. Honorable mention!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation#/media/File:Wilson-quote-in-birth-of-a-nation.jpg

      • schnurrito
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        5 hours ago

        what? He gave the Slavic nations self-determination, there are roads named after him in e.g. Czechia, Slovakia; and wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy?

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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          4 hours ago

          He gave the Slavic nations self-determination

          Absurd claim. Slavic nations risen due to collapse of the three european empires in WWI.

  • TheDrink [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    13 hours ago

    Andrew Jackson and it’s not even close. Not to downplay the horrible crimes committed by many of our other presidents but I don’t think anything rises to the level of the Trail of Tears.

    Remove Jackson from the running and it’s a more interesting conversation, however thinking about it reveals just how interconnected all of this stuff is. While the current genocide is occurring under Biden, we can’t forget that the conditions that lead to Oct 7 were created under Trump. For that matter so were the conditions that lead to the escalation of the war in Ukraine.

    I think the worst in my lifetime by a mile is Dubya, but while his wars were massive and consequential we can’t forget that George Senior also killed scores of people in Iraq, and Clinton carried out the sanctions regime that killed scores more. Clinton was also the one who broke Labor’s influence within the Democratic Party - but it was Obama who was swept into power on the promise of a working class revolution only to smother it in its crib.

    But yeah my top two are Jackson and Dubya but beyond that I’m not sure there are a lot of crimes in the history of America’s presidency.

  • Yeat [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    10 hours ago

    If we’re talking strictly the neoliberal era would it be too out there to say 1. Bush Jr 2. Reagan 3. Biden? All time though probably Andrew Jackson

    • Chulk@lemmy.ml
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      7 hours ago

      While i abhor Bush Jr, I would put Reagan as #1. He paved the way for Bush Jr. And Biden. IMO Bush Sr is tied for the #3 spot simply for pardoning members of the Iran-Contra affair.

      Nixon is one of the worst presidents we’ve ever had though, and I would put him higher than any of the others. The “war on drugs” caused so many rippling horrors domestically. And those horrors don’t compare to what he did abroad.

  • kersploosh@sh.itjust.works
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    13 hours ago

    While W. sucked in many ways, there is no way he is the worst. Off the top of my head I can easily think of four better contenders: Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan (both guilty of pro-slavery fuckery before the Civil War), Andrew Johnson (fought to let the Confederates off the hook after the war and opposed the 14th amendment), and Donald Trump (first president to be impeached twice, first to be convicted of a felony, and may be remembered by future historians as the spark that ignites the next Civil War).

    • adarza@lemmy.ca
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      14 hours ago

      donvict ain’t done yet, either. i think the damage and legacy he leaves behind, leaking out that giant diaper, will be the worst of the bunch.

    • einkorn@feddit.org
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      14 hours ago

      Btw. question from Germany regarding Trumps Felony: I read that people convicted of a felony may not vote yet I also read that Trump cast his in Florida. Hoe does it actually work?

    • guy@piefed.social
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      13 hours ago

      Question from another European about that, he’s convicted but never got a sentence? Or did he and why in that case isn’t he serving?

      • FoxyFerengi@lemm.ee
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        12 hours ago

        Sentencing was delayed until after Nov. 5th, and now it’s been permanently delayed. I’m sure the conviction will be overturned at some point while he’s in office

        • guy@piefed.social
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          16 minutes ago

          But have can you delay a sentence?
          I mean it sounds so foreign to be told in court that “Yeah you’re deemed guilty… but we’re telling you your punishment later. Maybe.” instead of just BAM guilty, straight to jail it will be!

      • 50MYT@aussie.zone
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        12 hours ago

        Non burgers here: I believe the sentencing for the conviction was delayed till after the election. And since that they have announced it has been delayed indefinitely.

        • guy@piefed.social
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          17 minutes ago

          How is this even possible? Aren’t sentences supposed to come with the verdict?
          The punishment might come at a later date (it might in my country where you can be told that in 3 months you will serve jail time), but the sentence?

    • Zyratoxx@lemm.eeOP
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      6 hours ago

      Touché. His first term wasn’t that horrible (although it wasn’t good either). I’m still mad they organised a meeting with Kim just to tell him to go fuck himself. That character development could become spicy. On the other hand would we even have had a meeting with Clinton in power?

      But hey, he still has four years and a lot of plans to claim a podium place.

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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        4 hours ago

        That meeting with Kim was probably to woo him like US previously did to Iran to make them abandon nuclear armaments, but thankfully DPRK govt can read and do know what happens to countries who believe empty US lies. So since that didn’t work, US in a second abandoned their friendly mask and went back to previous policies.

  • ℕ𝕖𝕞𝕠@slrpnk.net
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    15 hours ago

    It’s tempting to pick someone recent, but the real answer is probably Andrew Jackson. He successfully engineered a genocide, trampled the Constitution and human rights, and was actively hostile to limits on Presidential power.

    • P_P@lemm.ee
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      12 hours ago

      We’ll see if 47 surpasses him. He’s set up to do so. It’s going to be wild to see what happens when Trump order troops to fire into crowds of American citizens.

      • OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml
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        6 hours ago

        We always seem to get this crazy hyperbole that Trump is going to be some competent fascist that’s going to perform some great coup that will end the US, but in reality it always seems the real damage he does is the evil bureaucracy that erodes rights and liberties while exacerbating things in foreign policy.

        Jan 6th was very flashy, but comparatively speaking, nothing really happened.

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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        4 hours ago

        Pretty much all of them actively participated in various genocides and massacres, either directly like native genocide or Philippines or all the aerial massacres of XX and XXI century (even the one who was president for a month), or indirectly like even the “most peaceful president” Carter supported the massacres in Indonesia.

        • OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml
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          6 hours ago

          Just wondering if you had a few other overseen examples off the top of your head since you seem knowledgeable on this.

    • Zyratoxx@lemm.eeOP
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      3 hours ago

      I have yet to see a picture of him where he doesn’t look like he has no clue of what is going on around him.