• Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    This won’t do anything. His base doesn’t care. They treat this like a sports team. He’s still “their” guy. The Cleveland Browns have a rapist as their quarterback. Despite everyone in Cleveland not being a fan of his extraciricular activities, I have seen no boycotts. I’ve seen no reduction in Browns gear here in Cleveland. I’ve seen no reason to believe that we’ve shown our front office that we won’t stand for a rapist on the team.

    It’s the same with trump/republicans. They’ve had several, countless even, oppertunities to exit the highway down the road that is trump. The fact that he emerged in 2016 as the republican nominee at all still feels like it was decided by a round of plinko.

    They should have looked at him from before 2016 and said no. They could have exited anytime between 2017-2021. They could have exited over J6. They could have exited in the aftermath of J6.

    They stayed on the highway that whole time. They aren’t getting off. They’re going to ride that highway until they drive off a cliff at the end.

    And in that sense, this article/post/video is nothing but a feel good moment for everyone else that ultimately doesn’t do, or change ANYTHING. Remember, he JUST claimed he never said “lock her up”. His base is unphased.

    • blandfordforever@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      I have no credibility or relevant qualifications. I’m just some random moron on the internet, but here’s my opinion:

      His base has been manipulated. They have a sunken cost. Each time something new and horrible comes out about Donald Trump, they have to either be OK with it or come to terms with the idea that they may have been wrong about him this whole time. They’ll react emotionally to this dilemma as if being wrong in this case would constitute a personal attack on their character.

      • jballs@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        With every new lie he tells or every new horrible thing he does, his supporters are forced to embrace it. And it just compounds. If they question him now, that would mean they’d have to question the hundreds of other things about him they’ve accepted.

        So if he says “the sky is green” then they have to accept it as fact. Because if they question it, then they have to question if he told the truth about getting a fair trial, and then they have to question if he actually tried to cover up sleeping with a porn star, then they have to question if he slept with a porn star, etc etc all the way back for at least a decade. It’s much easier just to accept the latest small lie than question everything you’ve believed for so long.

        • Westwolf@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          No, if he says “The sky is green,” they don’t believe him. They turn to watch your face as you meltdown over it. Nobody cares if he slept with a porn star and fudged some paperwork, they just care that it makes you spin out into this kind of nonsense.

          • nilloc
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            2 months ago

            I think that might be true for a portion of his supporters, but there are definitely a religious group of them that take his word 100%.

            There are mean trolls who want to win the libs for sure, but there are also some really stupid motherfuckers out there.

      • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        God damn. I HOPE you’re wrong. As that would imply that roughly 48% of america is voting because of this refusal to admit to themselves that they were wrong.

        Hell, I KNOW I’m wrong a lot. There’s no reason to say “oh, maybe I shouldn’t have done that.” And then fix your mistakes. There’s even times I’m right 100% through an event, and then contexts change, and you have to admit the way you did it was actually wrong for reasons that hadn’t happened yet in that moment.

        We used to LOVE trump in 2004. Long before he was a politician. We loved him because he was easy to laugh at, and immitate in a mocking manner. But, now I know that watching clips of him on tv, only gave him ratings, kept him with a weekly paycheck for doing nothing. I now know if he went bankrupt in the 2000s, he wouldn’t have had the standing or money to run a campaign in 2016.

        So, oops. I was wrong for that. Difference is, we loved him like a clown. These people today love him like a savior. Which I do not understand.

        • Westwolf@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          These people today love him like a savior. Which I do not understand.

          It’s very simple. For the last 30 years, liberals have become more and more self-righteous, arrogant, and idiotic in the policies they pursue. You’ve all lost any ability to argue and defend your positions, relying on cheap tactics like name-calling to mock, deride and dismiss the right without actually defending your increasingly insane positions. You’re all so far up your asses, so bigoted and condescending, that it has become impossible to have any sort of political dialogue.

          They hate you, they can’t reason with you, they can’t even get you talk to them without calling them fascists and bigots, all while you ignore the harm your own policies are causing. Donald Trump is your punishment. The people don’t love him a savior, they love him because he’s a giant middle finger in your face, and it makes you throw a temper tantrum.

          • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            And which policies might those be? The policies that stop ICE from seperating families at the border? Trying to end the acts of throwing them in large metal boxes with no water, some dying, in 110 degree heat?

            Or are you thinking of other policies?

            • Westwolf@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              The policies that stop ICE from seperating families at the border? Trying to end the acts of throwing them in large metal boxes with no water, some dying, in 110 degree heat?

              Are those Democrat policies? Is that what you mean to suggest?

              Or are you thinking of other policies?

              Yes, I was thinking about Democrat policies. And while it’s true that separating families at the border is a policy that began under Obama, I think it’s largely thought of as a Trump policy.

              I meant policies like using mass immigration as a stop-gap measure to deal with the negative population growth caused by liberal anti-family values and embracing globalism to the detriment of American workers (which the right is also guilty of, but Trump is as much a thumb in the eye of the Republican establishment as he is the Democratic establishment).

          • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            You’ve all lost any ability to argue and defend your positions, relying on cheap tactics like name-calling to mock, deride and dismiss the right without actually defending your increasingly insane positions.

            I honestly can’t tell if you’re trolling, or just really fucking oblivious.

      • Westwolf@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        No, his base hasn’t been manipulated. They like Trump for one reason and one reason only: He makes you gnash your teeth. Trump is their revenge on you for being such self-righteous arrogant dicks and cheating in the political process. The only way Trump could lose luster in their eyes is if you guys all stopped freaking out about Trump, which won’t happen.

        • blandfordforever@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          Do you care to elaborate on how Trump is revenge? I am honestly interested in your opinion.

          I think these “self-righteous arrogant dick” people are a very small minority of Democrat voters, just as any unflattering stereotype of Republican voters is only an accurate representation of the most unpleasant members of that group.

          I think part of the appeal of Donald Trump seems to have something to do with the fact that he is (or at least has been, or projects the appearance of being) rich and powerful, and then is just blatantly honest about the level of corruption and hypocrisy that the rich and powerful get away with. I think people like that honesty. Nobody wants to live in a rigged system.

          However, (and I think this is the part where you’ll get frustrated with me) he seems to be highly and openly corrupt. I think he wants to make corruption and abuse of power seem normal so that when he does it, he can act like it isn’t a big deal.

          It’s a big deal.

          • Westwolf@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            Do you care to elaborate on how Trump is revenge?

            Starting in the 1960s, this country entered into a “culture war” that is, in many ways, similar to the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. On one side, you have the postmodern liberal/left, which is motivated primarily by critical theory originating in post-Marxist philosophical movements. On the other side, you have modernist and traditonalist right (i.e. libertarians/neocons and the Christian right (I would be part the later group)). The right has been losing the culture war badly since the 1980s and the left has near total cultural dominance now, and has begun the process of destroying the modernist/traditionalist right through the school systems and its control of media. This has made the right feel utterly powerless and humiliated by the left, and has left them questioning whether the Republicans were ever actually representing them or were just stooges for the postmodern left the whole time.

            Donald Trump is the epitome of everything the postmodern left hates. He’s crude, belligerent, brashly honest about things you’re not supposed to be honest about, but essentially a congenital liar in all other regards. He’s sexist, he’s borderline racist, he’s anti-intellectual, and he’s a rich, powerful straight white man who makes absolutely no apologies for it and is absolutely swimming in unearned privilege.

            That’s why the right supports him. The right isn’t even allowed to question the left’s agenda, it’s dogma. They’re not allowed to participate in politics and culture anymore, they’re only recognized as the “bad guys,” the “enemy.” They feel like the only thing they can do is put a thumb in the left’s eye and make them hurt. So that’s why they are in love with Trump, and not a more sensible candidate like DeSantis. Because Donald Trump’s mere existence makes the left gnash their teeth.

            I think people like that honesty. Nobody wants to live in a rigged system.

            That’s certainly part of it. They do think everyone is as corrupt as Trump, but only Trump is willing to admit it.

            However, (and I think this is the part where you’ll get frustrated with me) he seems to be highly and openly corrupt. I think he wants to make corruption and abuse of power seem normal so that when he does it, he can act like it isn’t a big deal.

            I totally agree. The man is beyond corrupt. I genuinely believe your average family dog has a better understanding of morality than Donald Trump, who may possibly be the most venal, corrupt person to ever hold the office of President. It’s either him or Jackson. As I believe I said earlier, I’m not a Trump supporter. I’m a socially conservative Catholic who is moderate to liberal on economic issues, so naturally I’m very much opposed to the Democrats, but Trump doesn’t really hold any appeal to me (except insomuch as his election might bring Project 2025 to fruition). I’m also Gen X, so I’ve known who Trump was for 30+ years and absolutely cannot take him seriously. But I totally get why the conservative base – which is mostly made up of unideological reactionaries – has embraced him.

            • blandfordforever@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              Thank you for this great response. I’m genuinely interested in your perspective.

              When you say that the right is losing the culture war, are you referring to things like the rights of women, minority groups, gay/whatever people, separation of church and state, and environmental protectionism, or am I misunderstanding?

              Why does the right feel powerless and humiliated?

    • stevedidwhat_infosec@infosec.pub
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      2 months ago

      You mean to tell me people with dog shit moral compasses and who are obsessed with regression/stale movement for all but the elite are hipocrits??

      Crazy.

  • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    When I see comments talking about how pointless it is to continue pointing out his hypocritical actions I immediately write that person off as a bot.

    If you’re struggling to figure out why it’s important to show this to his stupid constituents then I don’t understand why you’re even commenting. Sit back and let the people interested in effecting change spread this information and shut the fuck up.

    • WideEyedStupid@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I think it should definitely be pointed out, constantly, how much of a hypocrite and liar Trump is, just to get it (and keep it) on the record. Ignoring it would only normalize it more. And maybe some fence sitters didn’t know about it and now they do. Which is a good thing.

      At the same time, however, I also believe it’s absolutely pointless, if your goal is to convince any of his followers. They already know all of this and they don’t care. They don’t love him despite the lies and hypocrisy. They love him because of it. And even if they don’t like it per se, they still won’t turn against him, because they’re accepting way worse and nothing has been a deal breaker so far.

      Edit: I have often wondered what Trump would have to do for his followers to abandon him. Is there anything they wouldn’t accept?

      • mPony@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Is there anything they wouldn’t accept

        Find them and ask them.

        Discussing on forums like these is all find and good, but in the end it’s lots of Preaching To The Choir. What people need to do is find a Red Hatter and ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.

        Outreach will win the day.

        • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          Find them and ask them.

          You have apparently had much more productive conversations with trumpers than I ever have.

          ask them what it would take to choose their country over their party.

          And, it’s not hard to predict their answers.

          • Treat trans people like monsters and pedophiles, and legislate as such.
          • Knock gays back to the 80s or earlier via legislation
          • The rest of the queer community needs to STFU and pretend they don’t exist.
          • Cancel all DEI programs and make them illegal
          • Immigration? No thank you!
          • Make Pride month celebrations illegal at all businesses or public areas
          • Follow the DeSantis model of history teaching, by trying to claim slavery was a benefit to slaves, or that Rosa Parks was just having a bad day and sat at the wrong end of the bus, etc
          • Support police without question - as long as it’s the blacks, gays, antifa, and left-leaning protesters they are beating up on
          • Eliminate birth control and abortions nationally
          • Put back all those civil war memorials because muh heritage
          • Restrict college and high school curricula to Republican-approved materials on a national level
          • Cease all climate-change measures or spending
          • Acknowledge there is no solution to gun violence that involves restricting the activities of gun owners.

          That’s pretty close to the list for anyone who is flying a Trump flag. And if it’s not on their list, it’s still not a dealkiller.

          Outreach will win the day.

          You’d need to put me in kevlar and pay me a lot to go knocking on maga doors all day.

          Edit: (I promise I know who Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman were, I just flipped the name by accident in my haste!) https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rosa-parks-race-removed-florida-textbook/

        • WideEyedStupid@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Well, I get what you’re saying, but I’m European and while there are plenty of right-wingers here, I haven’t met any actual obvious Trumpers so far, though I’m sure plenty of them do like Trump.

          Was just kinda wondering ‘out loud’ if there is an actual line somewhere and what it would be. It seems to me it’s much easier for democrats to turn against their politicians than it is for republicans.

          • Banana@sh.itjust.works
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            1 month ago

            I’m Canadian, but I can still tell you why Democrats are more likely to turn against their own politicians.

            People who vote Democrat tend to be more educated, and academics tend to lean left. The left-leaning academics are far more left leaning than the Democratic party and are aware that, while the Democrats are the lesser of two evils, they still stand to uphold the status quo for the ruling class, whereas the Republicans have devolved into explicit fascism.

            Because the Republicans have fallen into fascism, the people who vote Republican are either undereducated and fall for the propaganda or they’re part of the ruling class and want more money.

            • WideEyedStupid@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              I hadn’t really thought about the link to education much. I kind of figured that democrats just have more… deal breakers than republicans, mostly due to empathy (which… I don’t think it’s linked to education?). If you don’t like hurting people, if you care about other people (and not just the ones you know), then there will obviously be a lot of things you won’t accept.

              But caring about the truth and reality and science is important, so I guess you do have a point.

      • ClanOfTheOcho@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Regarding your edit (i. e., what would it take for Trump followers to change their mind), go hit YouTube with a search for “Jordan Klepper fingers the pulse” and watch some of those. A more recent one, in which he speaks to Niki Haley supporters, demonstrates what are likely “more reasonable” Republicans regarding Trump, and probably best answers your question. Most feature him speaking to Trump supporters at Trump rallies. One features him talking to supporters during (yes, you read that correctly) the January 6 insurrection. Watching these will help understand the entrenched mindset. Hilarious and horrifying.

      • bazus1@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        The mental exercise is… what would Biden have to do to get you to vote for the Republican Party? Or even to get you to just not vote at all? I know it’s a false equivalency, but it gives you some sense of the lines we all draw in the sand, and the “activation energy” that it takes to change our minds.

        • barsquid@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          He could be as overtly criminal as Donald, taking money from Russia and the Saudis in exchange for top secret documents and lists of CIA agents, and I’d still be voting as long as he doesn’t also do an insurrection. FPTP and having all Repubs back a criminal as their preferred leader has really backed me into a corner.

          IDK that the mental exercise is helpful in 2024. If the point is to say that they feel the same about Biden, that’s because they have been brainwashed by far-right propaganda. The activation energy it takes to sway them is cult deprogramming.

          • Banana@sh.itjust.works
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            1 month ago

            Overtly criminal or overtly fascist?

            I could back a criminal if I found the reason to be morally sound. Let’s not forget that some crimes, morally speaking, were the right thing to do (think hiding jews during the holocaust as an extreme example, and maybe possession of certain drugs as an example of something morally ambiguous that wouldn’t keep me from voting for a good candidate)

            Using campaign money to pay hush money? That’s just in line with the shit Donny already does; it’s dishonest as all hell and definitely not morally sound. He’s also clearly a fascist.

        • ඞmir@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          Actively supporting a genocide with billions of USD in goods seems like a great reason to not vote for Biden anymore

          • bazus1@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            okay, that’s the first half… so since you’re going to not vote because of gaza, it stands to reason that it’s possible that someone would choose not to vote for Trump if he said he wasn’t going to let Israel ethnically-cleanse gaza. It’s all about putting yourself in someone else’s shoes. Thanks for participating!

              • bazus1@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                ah. So the true answer to what would it take for me to not vote for Biden was “nothing.” I guess the question for you is, what would it take to get you to cast a valid vote for a US democrat president and why aren’t you doing it?

                • ඞmir@lemmy.ml
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                  2 months ago

                  So the true answer to what would it take for me to not vote for Biden was “nothing.”

                  For me yeah. I’m just saying I sympathise with all those who think Biden crossed their “activation energy” line by supporting Israel’s genocide for this long.

                  what would it take to get you to cast a valid vote for a US democrat president

                  A good track record. I’d want to vote for Bernie if I could, after hearing the fire in his voice and knowing he means it.

          • Banana@sh.itjust.works
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            I would say strategic voting for biden at this point to prevent Donny from winning is a fine reason to vote Biden right now.

            Let’s not forget that their system is broken and unless you vote one of those two parties, your vote doesn’t matter, and Donny wants your vote to matter even less. Even just to attempt to uphold political democracy it’s worth voting Biden, but that’s what he’s riding on and that’s a fucking shame.

            By all means, if the alternative wasn’t thrusting the US into fascism, I would absolutely say don’t vote for the person supporting genocide, alas that is not the case.

    • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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      If you’re struggling to figure out why it’s important to show this to his stupid constituents then I don’t understand why you’re even commenting. Sit back and let the people interested in effecting change spread this information and shut the fuck up.

      What I’m struggling with is to find evidence from past events which would lead you to believe his voters are going to be changed by showing them any of this. You’ve got the folks who do not care because they are Trump cultists, then you have the folks who would vote for Satan himself if he had R next to his name.

      Everyone else is already not going to vote for him.

      So what change do we think showing this to his supporters is going to effect?

  • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I think notorious waffler Lindsey Graham has proved conclusively that showing them their own hypocrisy is absolutely and completely pointless. They don’t care. They want theirs in power and they don’t give a shit how they get them there or what they’ve done before they got there. That’s why they can scream about non-existent child molesters and pedophiles on the left while voting for right wingers who’ve been actually found to be such.

    • chetradley@lemmy.world
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      I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said, ‘Let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination,’ and you could use my words against me and you’d be absolutely right.

      -Lindsay “nothing I say matters” Graham

      • tempest@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        He just left off the end bit which is something like “but being right doesn’t matter to my constituents who just vote R and hope the 1950s come back”

  • s_s@lemmy.one
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    2 months ago

    My take-away, here, is that 8 years ago he could actually form a sentence.

    • Asafum@feddit.nl
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      YouTube popped up a suggestion for a video of Obama being asked about cynicism and my god… I forgot what it was like to have a president who actually had a grasp of the English language and enough functioning neurons to actually speak…

      Now we have Donnie Depends and Onion on his belt Biden…

      It would be nice if we could have a president that doesn’t have first hand memories of the war of 1812…

  • Suavevillain@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Trump has the power of making people drop any form of morals or values, even after called out by his own words. True cult leader stuff.

    • Bytemeister@lemmy.world
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      If trump gets them to drop their morals, then they never really any in the first place.

    • blarth@thelemmy.club
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      There’s absolutely nothing he can say to convince MAGA fucks that he’s not leadership material.

      • tegs_terry@feddit.uk
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        2 months ago

        They’re not interested in what kind of material he’s made of. He’s their team, and they’re his supporters. It’s what you get for turning your elections into a sports match.

  • bill_buttlicker@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Omg who cares. He lies and says literally opposite things from previous things every single day. It makes no difference. He’s a shit human and no one is going to see this one example and think. “hmm maybe has had him pegged wrong…” just vote in nov please.

    • kronisk @lemmy.world
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      I can understand the fatigue, but the alternative is silence and resignation. Someone has to be the sane voice that points out these things. Someone has to display consistent morals, or else society rots completely. You might not see a result immediately, but it’s not in vain.

  • lolola@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    2 months ago

    Now now. He said the felony indictment would create a constitutional crisis. The trial would grind government to a halt. His trial’s over, he’s already been convicted. Completely different situation.

    Sarcasm aside, I don’t expect this to matter much. Pointing out the hypocrisy never seems to do anything. Maybe hopefully it’ll peel off some hesitant voters on the margins, but will it cause the party to change course in any substantial way? I doubt it.

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        Exactly. I was going to reply to the original commenter saying, like, you know he’s still got 3 other trials actively in progress right? (Well, 1 of those is indefinitely halted, but still).

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        Ah crap, you’re right. I’ve been so focused on the one case that reached a conclusion that I tend to forget all the other cases still pending.

  • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    His good buddy, Viktor Orbán, said that “any prime minister, who makes the Euro go over HUF300 should resign” not only made the Euro go over 300 in the first few months, but nowadays we often hit the 400 mark, basically nullifying most of the wage increase we got, many of which was in the form of “presence bonuses”, meaning you get an extra paycheck if you don’t go to day offs unless the factory is shut down, and don’t use any sick leaves or go to the doctor - imagine what it did during the pandemic.

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      2 months ago

      Add his opinion on media monopoly to the mix back when he was in opposition, sprinkle it with some claims of dancing to the Russians’ tune, and decorate it with a pinch of concerns about how a government increasing divide and tensions can only expect to be washed away by the same radicalised masses.

      Suddenly the supporters become politically sensitive and open to nuances and grab every opportunity to highlight the difference in cultural and political context (of him back then and now). Bring up literally anything else and the only thing they can regurgitate is the exact words of their dumbed down propaganda.

  • 1stQ@feddit.de
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    2 months ago

    Landscape video in a portrait video in a landscape video… I’m watching that on a portrait oriented screen. Am I the only one who finds that ridiculous?

    • Tier 1 Build-A-Bear 🧸@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Also this post should’ve just been a link to the video. I don’t know how some journalists are employed when they can barely write a paragraph that somehow manages to tell you less than the title.