Good for them. I’d love to see ALL industries do this but that’s going to be impossible. We’d need greed eradicated before that happens.
The different direction;
No more original IP, and 99% of profits come from litigating against end users.
(It’s the same direction as before, just not including AI yet)
I mean, that direction is extremely lucrative, whereas AI is extremely expensive and totally unproven to be profitable.
List of a few of Nintendo’s new IPs from the last 15 or so years:
- Arms
- Good Job!
- 1-2 Switch
- Dillon
- Splatoon
- Snipperclips
- Pushmo
- Steel Diver
- Fluidity
- Nintendoland
Just because you aren’t buying/playing them doesn’t mean they aren’t making them. Let’s also not ignore the amount of time to develop a game has increased significantly or how gamers overwhelmingly choose to buy games from well-known IP. They are a company and need to pay their employees. I’m not a fan of Nintendo’s litigation practices, but I’m also not a fan of how whiny and bitchy gamers have become. If they aren’t whining and or bitching, they are harassing developers and actors.
Massive massive W for once
Nintendo n…
Wait they did a good thing? huh, that’s… new
Nintendo militantly protecting their IP, to the detriment of pirates, is their prerogative. Inside the dev culture, they’re one of the best and most respected AAA shops in the business. Their games speak for themselves.
That’s cool now could you tell your lawyers to go in a different direction with respect to mods and fan games?
Pokemon effectively makes them all the money they need and all they need to do is sick one of the rabid lawyers they keep in the basement on anyone even remotely infringing upon what they think they own.
They’re like a litigation equivalent to McDonald’s land ownership twist to company financial equivalency.
They want AI to get to a point where they can sue it.
Good thing happens:
Lemmy: Yeah but lawsuits am I right?
Can’t you people be happy for one goddamn second?
SadlyNo
No, it’s fucking Nintendo
We have not once encountered a corporate shitstain as aggressive as them.
They make some good games, that’s all. Everything else about them sucks.
We have not once encountered a corporate shitstain as aggressive as them.
Are you kidding? You can’t think of a single company in the modern games industry worse than Nintendo? Do EA, Ubisoft, and Activision Blizzard not exist in your reality? What did they do in your eyes that makes them worse than sex abusers and slave drivers?
Nintendo took down the most normie rom site! I hate them!
Seriously. People need to stfu about piracy. Just enjoy your games and stop making it hot.
not to mention like fucking Nestlé, Montsano, Blackrock, Northrop Grunman
Yeah. Nestle is responsible for the deaths of several million infants (that’s not an exaggeration) and owns slaves.
Like, I’m no fan of Nintendo’s stance on a lot of things, but they’re not the Devil.
I didn’t even realize that they didn’t specify gaming companies until you pointed that out. In that case I wouldn’t even put Nintendo in the top 50.
I would agree, knowing that they started the company 135 years ago with a product that was illegal at the time, for silly reasons.
If Nintendo weren’t such pricks about their IP, they would be a perfect company. They don’t chase short-lived trends, they don’t make live-service slop or loot boxes, their DLC is usually great (without feeling necessary), they constantly experiment and innovate, and most of their hardware is incredibly durable and reliable (joycon drift being the big exception). But if you make a fan game or host a tournament using one of their games, even if it’s been out of print for 20 years, even if you’re not monetizing it, they will come after you. It’s the one thing I really hate about them.
If Nintendo weren’t such pricks about their IP, they would be a perfect company
They also have some atrocious work culture. Managers screaming at people. Developers routinely overworked to burnout. Leads can be egomaniacal in their pursuit of a particular vision.
The IP attitude is deeply rooted in a company culture of strict control and authoritarian attitudes.
That said, they produce some incredible art and style. So it’s hard to argue with the results.
Wish people would be more comfortable simply feeling inspired by Nintendo and doing their own things, rather than trying to harvest Nintendo IP and fight them for control. Would make everyone happier over the long term.
Wish people would be more comfortable simply feeling inspired by Nintendo and doing their own things
The PalWorld devs did that. Nintendo sued them anyway.
I believe the Palworld devs got caught plagiarizing in their own internal messaging.
That’s more of a Japanese company thing than something specific to Nintendo.
Not that it makes it OK, but this is a country that looked at how workers are treated in America and decided the problem was not going hard enough.
Arguing with the results is the reason we had WW2. Slaves built pyramids, but I wouldn’t like going bavk to that way of work.
Slaves built pyramids
Skilled craftsmen built the pyramids, slaves were mostly relegated to less prestigious work like farming.
Just out of curiosity, do you have a source for your claims that Nintendo has a bad work environment?
I’d love to learn more about it and verify this claim.
They seem to have really high employee retention:
Nintendo’s employee retention rate is 98.9%, surpassing the national average of 70% thanks to factors like brand strength and a strong employee welfare program.
That said, it’s a Japanese company, and Japanese work culture is very different from western work culture (read: a lot more stressful), but they seem to be doing reasonably well vs their peers.
I was trying to look more into game dev crunch at Nintendo and the most recent articles I could find were about Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Majora’s Mask (all for the Nintendo 64) and Metroid Prime (for the GameCube). From what I can tell all of their recent games have been delayed instead of forcing crunch.
That being said the difference in work culture means they probably still have longer hours but they aren’t giving their developers actual PTSD like EA and Activision. It is really sad that the bar for AAA game devs is not having devs hospitalized from overworking. Hopefully more game dev and software dev companies can meaningfully unionize to combat that.
I seen a video yesterday about how people in Japan hire people to quit their jobs. The girl said she spent a lot of time being grilled and felt like she owed the boss an apology.
Not Nintendo, still, I found it interesting.
I mean that’s literally exactly what PocketPair did with Palworld and look what’s going on with that.
I honestly feel like Nintendo simply can’t let people do what they do, better. They can’t allow it for whatever bullshit company-wide egotistical reason.
I honestly feel like Nintendo simply can’t let people do what they do, better.
Palworld was very explicitly cribbing from Nintendo IP. Down to the lead developers caught on record demanding that certain existing Pokemon be used as models for their content.
Also, the game was a bit of a flash in the pan. Idk if I’d conclude they “did it better” so much as they capitalized on a couple of popular trends to catch a surge of early adoption. Pokemon’s been chugging along since 1996. Lets see if Palworld can survive a full three years, nevermind the next 30.
The Palworld suit is not an IP suit because whether or not Palworld was “cribbing” from Pokemon they were well within the bounds of the law. They don’t even have to claim parody - their designs are their designs, despite the clear inspiration.
The lawsuit is over software patents, most likely the patents that Nintendo has for throwing a ball in a virtual space to capture a creature and riding on a virtual creature, aka absolute specious bullshit.
How were they stealing from Nintendo? And even if there is a record of some Palworld devs saying they want to use Pokemon in the game 1:1, that’s not what ended up happening at all. The only ones who actually think PocketPair used 1:1 Pokemon designs are actually blind Nintendo fanboys.
Oh, I’m sure sure their culture is terrible, but that’s also about what I expect from any game developer in 2024. At least they’re not like Microsoft, buying up small studios, working them to death, and then shutting them down for short-term profit. But you’re absolutely right, that is a shitty thing about their company that I completely glossed over.
Also, to he fair, Palword tried to do something cool inspired by Pokémon, and The Pokémon Company and Nintendo are suing them on what seems like a bullshit patent-troll claim. I actually think some of their character designs do seem like blatant rip-offs, but the idea that those games are too mechanically similar is nonsense.
Nintendo Lawyers realizing some of their IP is represented in LLM training data and outputs.
Oh, If love it if their lawyers tore a big strip out of Open AI (not that OpenAI need any help operating their massive money furnace.)
Thankfully, Nintendo gets it.
One thing about them, they might be assholes when it comes to game preservation and whatnot, but they always did their own thing based on what they think gamers would like.
They’re a toy company. That’s how they think of themselves. The fun comes first. That’s why they also try new gimmicks in games and then most of the time never do it again. In their minds they already made that toy.
That… actually explains the logic of this lawsuit for me. I still disagree and think they’re overly litigious fucks, but I think I might understand a less malicious argument for it. If someone mods a see 'n say to have a different audio track and slaps some new stickers on it, that’s still a see 'n say, right? The mechanism is fundamental to the product - a see n say is the spinning wheel -> random noise and Pokemon is video game where you throw balls at wild not-animals to catch them and use them to battle people. There’s a difference between a toy that’s heavily inspired by another one and being an edgy five year old with a firearm sticker pack who gives them to the cows and chickens and sheep.
I really have more of a games as art philosophy though, and I’ll just point to the works of Andy Warhol and Marcel Duchamp to make my argument here, my edible just kicked in.
Oh they’re absolutely litigious fucks, don’t get me wrong.
Games can definitely be art. They can be a lot of things, which is great. I agree with you.
Which is honestly something I love about their games. I play Nintendo for some casual gaming fun, then I go to Steam for my preferred niches.
The one glaring exception here is Pokemon, but that’s technically Game Freak instead of Nintendo proper, so I guess they’re okay making the same toy over and over because it’s a gold mine.
Yeah Game Freak is their own thing really.
Best part of the timeless Nintendo games is they’re all extremely easy to emulate and play forever. (Switch online subscription can suck my toadstool)
What do you mean by that? That the games are easy to emulate, or that volunteers have spent countless hour getting Emulation to work so now it’s possible?
No reason to make Mario galaxy 3. They already did that toy twice.
I think Galaxy 2 was unfinished levels from the first one, wasn’t it? Something like that.
Or Breath of the Wild, they were still having fun with it, and decided to multiple it by 3 for Tears of the kingdom
I can definitely respect a company making games cause they’re having fun with making them and not making them out of desire to please investors.
Has anyone told them they can probably use AI to search for opportunities for lawsuits?
Nintendo sues OpenAI after determining it infringes on its patent (JP2002-905518) for a “dystopian AI assistant” used in Metroid Fusion.
I can’t tell if this is legitimate or not. Lol
Might as well be these days.
They already do that. I think it was Did You Know Gaming channel’s video about Pókemon ROM hacks and they mentioned that few of them were likely taken down because they were targeted by an AI crawler.
Nintendo can’t even do games on a technical standard higher than 2012, how should they use AI? And their hardware is way to weak as well BTW.
They’re just lucky that the current AI Models are crap, otherwise this would be the next standard they’re missing in their “more of the same since 1980” games.
They should use more energy and money for developing innovative games than suing every fart on the planet.
They’re just lucky that the current AI Models are crap, otherwise this would be the next standard they’re missing in their “more of the same since 1980” games.
So you are complaining they are not adopting something you admit is currently crap?!
I’m going to complain about billionaire taxes then, I mean I have no billions but I’ll complain anyway
No, I’m saying, that Nintendo wouldnt benefit at all from AI, so why should they use it in the first place? And the reasons for that are:
-AI in it’s current state can only support in certain areas -Nintendo’s games aren’t massive enough to profit from the things AI can do atm
An example: AI can do Text to Speech, but Nintendo doesn’t make games like TES. Nintendo needs to optimise their games highly to run on a switch, which AI can’t do.
He is just stating the obvious, like saying the sun is hot.
He is just stating the obvious, like saying the sun is hot.
But he could say they are engineering to catch up to the trend, right? the question is not if they are to implement AI features in their current 8 year old console. The question is if AI is in their development path in the future
And the answer is no, Nintendo does not seem to see value there. I for one agree, the stuff you mentioned about AI in other comments in the thread go from “meh” to “I actively do not want that in my games”. This is just my opinion as a casual gamer but I see logic in Nintendo’s stance here.
I’ll never understand how these always get downvoted. I understand Nintendo people love their zelda and mario games, but their console is less powerful than most mobile phones. I bought disco elysium on the switch that i only have for my nephew. It has a lot of trouble running DISCO ELYSIUM!
If you only judge games based on graphics, I understand your point of view.
But I think it can be argued that Nintendo’s gameplay/design is pretty often up to date, if not ahead of it’s time. And tbh to me that matters the most.
Ex: Mario Wonder, Odyssey, BOTW, TOTK, Metroid Dread, Animal Crossing, etc
How are they ahead of their time? AC is just grinding and grinding and grinding. Mario ist jumping jumping and jumping. They do good lvl design but that’s it. No story, no characters, no innovative gameplay, nearly always just more of the same. Imagine Sony still releasing God of War games with gameplay like the PS2 and PS3 games, they would get hated into oblivion.
Everyone is free to like the games they want and I’m not saying that Nintendo games aren’t fun, but they’re overhyped. Nintendo is a lazy ass company, they innovate only when it is necessary. Without their IPs they would have already gone bankrupt or developer only. They had more than one crappy console, that nearly ruined the company (newest esample: Wii U). Another example are the Pokémon games, where is the innovation? It needs more than five types of garbage can Pokemon’s to call it innovation. And instead of doing good games they keep suing other indie companies that are capable of making better games than Nintendo itself after developing that ip for over 2 decades.
Putting the whole judging games based on graphics out there feels dishonest. I personally don’t give a rip how games look on the switch or can at the very least get over it pretty quick as long as they aren’t plgsued with performance issues . We shouldn’t be in a spot where playing modern console games on emulator is often a better experience than the real thing.
The switch architecture is very dated and the only ones who really know their way around to hack things together and make it kinda work is Nintendo. Still amazed that TOTK is playable on Switch with everything going on, but for a third-party dev to do the same would probably take an insane amount of effort. Its not worth it. Just update the standard and everyone will benefit.
What about any of those are ahead of their time?
Because even though everyone knows Nintendo’s consoles are under powered, they still usually deliver a ton of gameplay fun.
In this particular case, very few people want more “AI” in their stuff… and as even OP admits, current “AI” is crap. So why would I want to pay extra $$$ for hardware that can run “AI” when my gaming experience is likely not going to improve one bit?
I play on Switch and Pc, different games on each. The attraction to games on the switch for me isn’t graphics or power or performance… at all…
It’s gameplay and form factor.
I totally get your point and agree with it. I still play on my Vita, GB and PSP to this day.
What I’m criticising here is Nintendo as a company and the article itself. Is obvious that they don’t want AI because they can’t handle it and they don’t need it. AI atm can replace artists and actors but Nintendo games have nearly nothing to synchronise and the models for the games aren’t that difficult to make. So why should Nintendo care for AI anyway? Just take a look at Google and the other companies spending billions every year just to train their AIs.
AI atm can replace artists and actors
Another things no consumer wants
Huh. Time to buy some stock.
If the “different direction” to sue everyone who liked them before?!
Fuck Nintendo
Care to expand? They seem like one of the best video game companies out there, even though they are traditional Japanese patriarchy
For me, it’s their greed regarding old titles. I bought some older games on the Wii and/or 3ds stores. Well, those go away and you don’t get a license for that same game on the new system (even though, presumably, all the porting/emulation work has already been done). Little things like that
- throwing copyright strikes left and right at fan videos
- threatening developers of fan games with lawsuits
- actively working against game
preventionpreservation and emulation
It’s also worth noting that recently console modding became illegal in Japan. It’s obvious who pushed for it
Edit: fucking autocorrect lol
You forgot:
- retroactively patenting game mechanics and suing companies for them
No, they’re for game prevention, and against preservation.
Dunno why people down voted you for asking, but personally while I love some of their games and the creative direction they take their consoles - they just have way too many anti-consumer practices.
From recent memory, they’ve DMCA takedowned YouTube videos of people playing modded versions of Breath of the Wild before Tears of the Kingdom released. This isn’t the firs time they’ve DMCA takedowned videos they didn’t like, including videos showing emulation in the past. Their online service, despite costing money to play games online, primarily relies on peer to peer networking when their console has a very weak networking chip, meaning most online games have to account for very poor connections. They have been very aggressive in shutting down websites distributing Roms for games that no longer have a way to be accessed or played. It stinks that you have to pay for their online service if you want any form of save data backups, and even those are iffy because they really don’t want you putting it on more than one console. Their handling of joyconn drift has left a lot to be desired. They replaced them… Sometimes… And when they did you had to wait a while and usually the replacement would develop it, too.
This decision is based, but fuck Nintendo in general for suing palworld and everything Nintendo does legally
They’re constantly suing people just for existing on a day that ends in Y. It’s just really twisted that a company that exists to make fun toys is so cartoonishly evil.
I was going to reply but the other replies have covered everything already!
