- cross-posted to:
- tech@kbin.social
- cross-posted to:
- tech@kbin.social
Fully Charged in Just 6 Minutes – Groundbreaking Technique Could Revolutionize EV Charging::Typically, it takes around 10 hours to charge an electric vehicle. Even with fast-charging techniques, you’re still looking at a minimum of 30 minutes – and that’s if there’s an open spot at a charging station. If electric vehicles could charge as swiftly as we refill traditional gas vehicles, it wo
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What a bullshit article. While better anode materials are always nice, these claims about charging speed are just dumb. That’s only so much power you can push into a battery and today’s 350 KW chargers are probably already the practical limit. And if you can’t take a 20 minute break every 400 km or so, you should go home and rethink your life.
I was thinking that this is one of those thousands of battery technologies we will never hear about again.
yea, charging speed probably capped by anode chemistry. would splitting the pack by multiple BMS’s help circumvent this? if the charging time is the limit, people who prefer to drive 800km at a time could use an extra battery pack. that way a 20 min could be justified for them lol also we all know that it wont be 400km per charge. it would be only 330km at best.
That’s a weak ass road trip. My car gets 400 miles per tank and we don’t stop until it needs gas again. 400km is chump change on American roads.
That’s very reckless of you. Regular breaks are required to be able to drive safely. If you don’t take breaks you are being irresponsible and endangering your own life and those of others.
My car drives itself chill bro
That’s literally the law in many countries - commercial drivers (who are the kinds of people who would be driving those kinds of distances) have to take a 45 minute break every 4.5 hours. Because it’s unsafe to not do so.
Jesus Christ lolol, Imagine attacking people because they don’t want to spend an half hour or more waiting on charging.
Poor baby can’t deal with physics so you lash out and pretend like waiting wasting hours on longer trips.
If you’re going on a long trip and don’t want to wait for charging, there are plenty of gas-powered options available to you.
thats no argument if u want the car to be mass adopted. not everyone lives in california, or the netherlands.
If you have ICE cars to rent for the rare trips longer than the distance the car can travel on one charge, not many will be on the roads.
the point of using EVs is to phase out ICE cars, not to make them rarer to use.Current EVs are still unreliable to achieve this, since the manufecturer is not running a charity and wants to turn a profit on those by cheapning out on battery capacity, ie Tesla. Fossil is a finite ressource. Also Once they produce a car that has at least double the battery size and costs only 30k$ that i would use for the next 50 years, then my purchase of those could be justified. i plan on buying only a single car in my lifetime.
i plan on buying only a single car in my life.
Basically nobody does this.
not because nobody does this, it means that it should be the norm. also try to point out something more of material than this. 50 years probably, is too much. 30 years is reasonable (a car of 40 years ago still runs fine, as long as the body isnt corroded and the mechanics work fine. Power steering and is critical thou. the only thing that would prohibit a car from being used is the chassis, the rest is just parts) this is not an iphone that i should be tossing around each year.
And where did I say anything to the contrary?
And if you can’t take a 20 minute break every 400 km or so, you should go home and rethink your life.
I addressed the asshole attacking individuals who will use that option.
Really though, if you’re reaching the end of your battery capacity with a lot of EVs out there today, you’ve probably been driving for about 3-4 hours or so, if not longer, the general recommendations I’ve seen are you should really stop and get a 15 minute break about every 2 hours to stretch your legs, prevent fatigue, increase alertness, etc.so that’s pretty much in line with the recommendations. I know that’s pretty much the rhythm I and most other people I’ve ridden with tend to fall into on road trips without even trying. And very often despite my best efforts, rest stops tend to end up lasting around a half hour anyway because of checkout or bathroom lines, or one of my travel companions taking their time ordering food or getting distracted somewhere.
I get that some people can just power through much longer drives, and I’ve occasionally done it, but honestly it’s probably for the best if people are made to stop every couple hours and hit the reset button on their brains, a lot of people are shitty enough drivers when they’re fresh and well-rested, let alone after theyve been screaming down the interstate at 70mph for hours, and their brain is getting fatigued.
It’s double the recommendation in a best case scenario. It’s 4x as long a wait if you have to get in a queue.
I’ve never had a rest stop that takes more than 10 minutes and that’s if I have my toddler and wife.
If you want to stay forcing some drive time limits on people go ahead and try. But saying YOU get tired so everyone else must only be able to handle 2 hours at a time is insane. I’d be far far more tired showing up to my destination after an extra hour or two off driving and probably getting dark at that time.
I call BS. I have given diaper changes to my kids on the road that take more than 10 minutes. I won’t even mention lunch breaks, dinner breaks mid morning snack breaks, pooping breaks etc.
Diaper changes are a 45 second affair, 3 minutes if its a mess, and we’re past that personally. We’re in and out for toilets and have our own food packed. I commonly don’t need to use the rest room and the wife will take care of everything while I hang out at the pump and pick her up. 5 minutes.
Not everyone lolygags around
true. resting each 2-4 hours is nonsense. a solid 8 hour drive and u get to sleep at ur own regular bed time beats them all. Evs need double the mileage (thus double the battery capacity and charging speed) so they could achieve this. other than that, it is just a car for vegans.
how about you recognize that your use case is very much in the minority and covered by alternative solutions like Hydrogenation powered cars?
sure you might want a car with 1000 km range and you can get that along with semi-trucks you can hop on the Hydrogen platform , but statistics show that the vast majority of driving people do is well within the ranges of current BEVs, so why make all cars carry around all that extra weight, the expensive batteries when the vast majority of it won’t ever be used?
hydrogen is costly: it requires 44kwh of electricity to produce 1kg of H2, and that translates to 80km of mileage. while a 100kwh electric battery give u 300km mileage. also how much does a battery cost: 100$/kwh, ie 10k$ for 100kwh pack. i would gladly pay an extra 10k$ to have double the battery size, if just companies stopped being greedy and implementing stupid features like fast 0-60 acceleration, that eats up on mileage, and snake oil regenerative braking, and aero trunk spoiler for extra 10km mileage, for the price tag of 1k$ or god knows how much…i would gladly ride my pack at 110kmh with no brutal accelerations, and it would get me to almost everywhere i go. i shouldnt be needing a separate car to access remote areas, or always have to be anxious about range. minority ? hmm, well not everyone lives in the G7 countries, so we dont have a supercharger in each 100km radius. probably there are 5 or 6 V1 tesla chargers in 150k km² surface area where i am now
snake oil regenerative braking
da fuck.
i shouldnt be needing a separate car to access remote areas, or always have to be anxious about range. minority ? hmm, well not everyone lives in the G7 countries, so we dont have a supercharger in each 100km radius. probably there are 5 or 6 V1 tesla chargers in 150k km² surface area where i am now
How often do you go to these remote areas? how many of these areas are out of reach from you on a full charge?
i would gladly pay an extra 10k$ to have double the battery size
except there is more cost to a double battery size than just money, look up how the metals are mined for these batteries.
hydrogen is costly:
Doesn’t matter, it’s gonna be used for semi-trucks anyway, it can be manufactured anywhere and solar energy is abundant so is water, much more abundant than what we use for the batteries we have at the moment.
you also have to start to factor in road wear if you start doubling battery capacity.
That’s a very defensive response. You’re mocking the above poster because they “can’t deal with physics” but you seem to be neglecting biology yourself.
Driving something like 400km would take a good 4-6 hours depending on traffic. As a flesh and blood human you need to at least stop for the toilet, you should eat something to keep your energy levels up and you must always stay hydrated. Sure, you can power your body through that, but you can also power your body through 48 hours without sleep or an entire KFC bucket of chicken all to yourself - just because you can doesn’t mean you should or that it’s healthy. The difference in this case is that fatigue can lead to deaths, not just your own but whatever poor sucker you happened to drive into because you have been driving for 6 hours straight and lost concentration at just the wrong time.
Please do come back and claim that you don’t lose concentration and that you don’t need to stop every few hours because your reaction times and concentration levels are just fine. There isn’t a human on the planet that can make such a claim. Again: just because you can does not mean you should.
in the defense of the comment above, a chicken bucket would keep me full for 8 hours. and pissing would probably take 5 min or so. it could be less if a piss bottle is used and one needs to get to his destination quick and have no time to look for a destinantion restroom.
Hyundai EVs that use 350KW charging get to 80% in 15 minutes.
if you are in the very-very small percentage that needs faster fueling and more range you will have Hydrogen options.
In the EU it’s mandated by law to rest after a few hours of driving. You shouldn’t be driving 9 hours continuously like ever.
This is not true for private citizens in their own cars.
yea, thats for trucks. u would need a special monitoring system that monitors driver’s hours of driving. troll comment above.
Correct. But if you get in an accident after driving very long without a break, that will definitely be counted against you in court.
Congratulations. That’s the dumbest take I’ve read on social media in weeks. That’s downright Reddit levels of stupidity. Why don’t you slink off back into whatever hole you crawled out from?
No.
Alright, so let’s assume a 100kWh battery like some tesla models. Now, someone made such a battery that can be charged in 6 minutes… how much power does it need?
100 kW•h / 6minutes = 100kW•h / 0.1h = 1000kW = 1MW
So, we need 1 MEGAWATT car chargers … that’s some power required there.
Possibly even more significant, those are some large cables and even larger contacts required. There’s no way a 1MW disconnect is just a little plug you stick into your car.
In fact as an electrician I can’t think of anything even near megawatt class that would be connected with a portable cord, or at a voltage that would be safe for consumers to handle.
Maybe someone in the mining industry or similar can chime in, but I currently run a pumping station that includes 3000HP motors (2.2MW). These are 4kV 3 phase units where each phase cable is as thick as your arm. All connections are bolted and taped to avoid corona discharge. Just dragging the cable to the car would be more than the average driver could handle.
I don’t see a way to get these power levels into a car short of a standardized and semi-automated docking system. Or maybe go back to the idea of standard swappable batteries where the battery then is charged rapidly for the next customer.
The power lines in the cable are disconnected inside the charger by a contactor until communication with the car is confirmed established with a handshake, and then it connects power to the cable. If the communication with the car drops at any point, the contactor disconnects the power to the cable. It requires both effort and knowledge to bypass this design, it basically can’t happen accidentally.
Also, the cables you mention are that large, because they’re passively cooled, DC car chargers have watercooled cables so they can be much thinner without overheating. And at 4kV you’re looking at significantly different insulation thickness as well, compared to the 400-800V that electric cars use.
Electric busses already have automated docking systems, the only problem I see is cost
https://assets.foleon.com/eu-central-1/de-uploads-7e3kk3/39195/17_syb21_content1.79205c469709.jpg
u wouldnt plug in and plug out the thing live in a charger, no ? the charging station should detect when the car is plugged then activates some form of disconnect or something, to allow a 1Mw power to flow lol ? also 1Mw is far fetched, and the 6 min charging time is absurd. 12 min at 500 Kw speed would be more plausible
That’s 4,350 amps @230vac. The service fuse for my entire home is 80 or 100amp (single phase domestic dwelling Australia). The main breaker is 63amp.
Fast charging uses up to 1000 V DC, and the current limits of conductors are typically set by the temperature it reaches when conduction losses heat them up. This can be (and is) offset by liquid cooling, allowing current installations to deliver up to 650 A (Tesla supercharger v3).
With improvements, it’s not far off 1 MW.
DC fast charging typically runs at 400 volts, with some cars doing 800. They also do it with highly specialized equipment and service lines you’d never see in a residential setting.
When charging at home, you have all night. A 50A circuit will go 0-100 on most cars in that time, and if you look at what most people actually drive you can generally get by on much less.
how much amperage does utilities allow for residential use ? imagine charging ur car at 50 amp and decide to turn the heater on, only to trigger the breaker and cause the house to go dark lol. also home charging is costly as heck. 80kwh each night, wth ? u probably need 75m² of solar to generate electricity for 5 hours, generating 75kwh, enough to fully charge ur car for free, but also u need 7*11kwh powerpacks to accomodate all this energy. seems costly as hell. unless also ur job offers supercharger parking, which would be more suitable
how much amperage does utilities allow for residential use ? imagine charging ur car at 50 amp and decide to turn the heater on, only to trigger the breaker and cause the house to go dark lol
A fair question. Depends on the house. 100-200 is common, depending on the age of the house. 100 or less if your house predates central air conditioning, and 150-200 is far more common in the last few decades. Most people charge overnight, and they’re not using much else. If you truly have a smaller connection, even 20A @240V is surprisingly useful. Or hell, a normal outlet.
80kwh each night, wth ?
That may be your battery’s capacity, but that’s not necessarily your draw. How big is your gas tank? Do you give it ~15 gallons each day? My car gets about 3.5 miles per kWh. If I drive it 70 miles, that’s 20 kWH and then the car stops charging. And I pay about $2.50 for it. What would gas cost?
u probably need 75m² of solar to generate electricity for 5 hours, generating 75kwh, enough to fully charge ur car for free, but also u need 7*11kwh powerpacks to accomodate all this energy. seems costly as hell.
Solar direct to car is actually a terrible idea. Just hook something up to the grid if you want solar, but it’s pretty cheap without. You’re overthinking it, probably because your 80 kWH per day number is so out of whack.
unless also ur job offers supercharger parking, which would be more suitable
Again, no. Well, it’s cool if you can get it but it’s really not needed because home electricity is generally way cheaper than gasoline.
yea, fast charging is usually achieved using DC.
thats assuming 100% efficiency. which is impossible
I’m happy with 69 efficiency. 🙃
True, so I guess 1MW won’t even be enough
Typically you’re getting about 97-99% efficiency at a supercharger in ideal conditions (not running heat, around 70F outside, etc).
most EV cars are more like 60kwh though.
The person above you said Tesla. Most newer Tesla models are 75 kWh-120kWh.
incorrect. most are 56kwh
Oh damn, I didn’t realize Tesla started making the standard range again. When I got my LR RWD in 2018, they were not selling the SR anymore. However, their Model Y starts at 75kWh, and their Model S and X are only 100kWh now.
yea, 100kwh is too few. 170kwh would be ideal (for a model 3). The models S and X should have had a 250kwh pack, to support that needlessly fast acceleration.
I think 100kWh is ideal for a Model 3. I drove my LR RWD across the US (MS to CA to WA) and didn’t really have an issue. It was only bad when it got really cold outside, so having an extra 30% would cover that. It would have about 400 miles of range on a full charge, and 20 mins at a super charger would get you from 10% to 80%, so 300 miles, or another 4 hours of driving.
600Km in a single charge ? 450 km mileage in 20 minutes ? i am surprised. although i would feel more safe if a 20min stop adds another 150km (yea, 30% increase in battery size would be cool) (but how about running ac, towing stuff ? that could really decrease the efficiency) nonetheless, home charging is costly if u plan on adding 70kwh ever night to ur utility bill. so as a commuter, i should predict a 20 min stop to supercharge cheaply before getting home. then tomorrow, another stop mid day… Superchargers will be congested if this isn’t adressed, u hav a factor of 20x to tackle: people would fuel up with gasoline in a 1 minute or so instead, if everyone where to have EVs
why not have a car with 2*300kw charging plugs, and with 200kwh battery (u would get 160kwh in 36min, which achieves a solid mileage, at an efficiency of 150wh/km). Tesla Semis already charge their 800kwh pack in 3 hours (i assume its done using a 300 kw plug ? ), still not sure
Tesla semi is meant to be able to charge at 1mw, which makes sense considering the size of the battery, bigger battery means more cells and more space for cooling. The truck is also meant to support 1mw with the new v4 chargers. So if you believe Tesla (which is hard because of Musk), it is coming.
Charging that rapidly is only possible for some but not all 100% of the battery as you have to slow down as you approach 100%. 350kw chargers slow down around 80% (I’ve gone as high as 85% before I’ve seen the slow down). This happens at all charging speeds to protect the battery, even 7kw chargers slow down for the last couple of percent.
However charging to 100% of the time on ultra rapid chargers is monumentally dumb as it’s considerably more expensive per kWh than slow chargers, slower for that last 20%, blocks chargers for longer, and isn’t good for the long term health of the battery. It is as quick to charge twice to 80% than it is once to 100% on the same charger for 60 to 70% more range from charging twice. This is true because you avoid slowing down at the end of the charge.
You’re speaking with current lithium battery technology in mind. Supposedly, scientists in the article figured out a new technology that can be charged in 6 minutes. No word on whether it’s still necessary to slow down at the end, or charging efficiency. Time will tell I guess
It’s highly unlikely that they solve what is essentially a heat distribution problem with new battery materials. If you stick a huge number of cells in a giant cooling system then you can charge even lithium considerably faster than we do now for all of the 100%.
We are limited by the space, how good the battery pre condition charging is,maintenance schedule of the car and charging point.
My car has a separate fluid cooling system for ultra rapid charging that has its own maintenance schedule, if this system was bigger and didn’t have to go a minimum of 12 months between changes then it could be charged for longer at higher speeds.
If my car had a bigger battery with more cells in a suitable arrangement then again I could charge faster for longer as the charge is spread out across the battery. However eventually you’ll hit the point that you are only charging a few of the cells as the rest are full and you have to slow down or the battery will get too hot.
I just don’t see them completely solving the heat problem, just improving the current percentages.
I’m sick of reading phones and cars charging in a matter of minutes for the past decade.
Don’t worry about it too much. These sorts of articles focus on battery tech, but the ultimate limiting factor is the ability of the plug to supply power.
A Tesla Model 3 has a 75kwh battery. Let’s say it’s at 20% charge. That’s 60kwh to get it full (assuming 100% charge efficiency). It would take 600kw to charge that in 6 minutes.
The SAE J1772 plug is only rated to go up to 400kw on DC level 2, and you’d be hard pressed to find a charger that does it. I couldn’t find info on Tesla’s plug, but since it’s about the same size, it’s likely around the same. Tesla’s superchargers are themselves only going up to 250kw.
It would take yet another plug standard, and chargers that can actually handle such a load. Oh, and upgrading the electrical network to handle such a beast in widespread use.
Most of which is pointless, anyway. EVs are best handled by giving them a little charge wherever they’re parked. For road trips, unless you’re the type to pee in a bottle and eat sandwiches you prepared ahead of time, about 300mi range with existing charge rates is sufficient.
Didn’t think of this with this point of view
The main problem I have with that 300-mile range is in winter. 500 km of range in Canada would be enough for my purposes, but when winter hits and that range is massively decreased, it wouldn’t quite be enough anymore. With winter being basically half the year here in Ontario, it’s a huge downside.
That’s calculated in.
After about 3 hours of driving, you’re going to be ready for a break. At 70mph, that’s 210 miles.
Batteries tend to charge quicker in the first 80% than the last 20%, and also don’t charge quickly in the last 10%, so add an additional 30%.
Add another 20% for cold days. There are a few odd days of extremely cold weather where it’d be lower, but this is rare anywhere people actually live. Long range traveling on those days is also highly discouraged regardless of the type of car. Or even short range traveling, for that matter.
We do not need to hold back the rest of society just because a handful of people live in the arctic circle.
Add all that together, and you get to about 330 miles. This is enough to get you to 80% charge at each stop, likely within 30 minutes. Maybe even 20. Just right for a food and bathroom break that you’re going to want, anyway.
If you think the number should be 4 hours of driving rather than 3, then 440 miles is the number to shoot for.
Current electric cars are about there already. Further battery advancement can go towards making the cars lighter and cheaper, not pushing range to unnecessary distance.
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It’s a matter of power delivery at the moment. A modern rapid charger you can add about 10 miles a minute so 10 minutes is normally fine… barely enough time to have a cup of tea.
Getting power to a battery faster starts to become impractical simply because of the thickness of cable you’d need to do it, and the internal heat the battery would generate if you threw power at it that fast.
Think of it like a swimming pool. You can fill it with a small hose, might take an hour or two… bigger hose, maybe down to 30 minutes… you want it to be done in seconds? Sure… let me just turn up with this dump truck full of water…
Most of the things you read are about as useful as potato batteries. ‘We’ve come up with this new compound that can take charge really fast’. Sure. Now make millions of them, the size of a car, for a price people will pay. Oh you can’t… there’s the rub.
Turns out there are a near infinite ways of combining materials that make a battery, and only a handful that scale to industrial production.
I recently got a phone that charges at 65W, from empty to full in 30 minutes. It’s at least getting better all the time, I’d say
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That’s not necessarily true, though it is also what I thought as of just a few days ago.
YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpqaQR4ikig
Piped Mirror:
https://piped.video/watch?v=UpqaQR4ikig
At least based on the information in this video from MKBHD, excessive heat is actually what causes rapid degradation of smartphone batteries. Super fast charging phones actually work by reducing the overall heat to the battery through engineering designs, such as by splitting the battery into two parts instead of having one entire battery that gets hot. In this way, a phone that supports 50W chargers can charge “each battery” at only 25W, instead of one single battery at 50W. The space between the batteries also insulates the heat between them. It’s simple but ingenious really.
You do have a tradeoff of less battery power overall, due to the gap between the batteries, but it is definitely a technical achievement.
I don’t know how EV batteries work, but since the batteries are made up of many different smaller batteries, they could theoretically isolate the heat much more effectively than in a smartphone, which is all crammed into one battery in a tiny little space.
Try 3 decades
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could
k
Oh look. Another “could revolutionize” article.
And like all battery advancements we will maybe get this in the next ten years.
If at all. A lot of published science turns out not to be usable in real products, if not completely wrong. For starters, someone else should replicate the findings independently, to confirm them, then the manufacturing process needs to be scaled and the cost reduced, then … someone will need to figure out how many MW this thing needs to charge in 6 minutes …
No revolution is coming. Deal with it. But it’s also okay to have up to hour charges. Take a break, get some coffee and everything is fine. If you can sit 3h in traffic to work every day or sleep in front of the store on black friday so you can get 20% off on things you don’t need, you can sit every once in a while on long journeys. You need a break from driving anyway.
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All of these speedy innovations are great and everything, but they are impractical for most people. They will be useful for emergency situations and for long trips, but for the large majority of people driving electric vehicles their slow chargers in their houses will work just fine.
I love hearing about new ideas, but it’s annoying hearing them phrased like it’ll change the entire charging game. It doesn’t matter if they invent things that charge cars in 30 minutes. Most people will still be slow charging their car while they sleep.
The barrier to adoption is so often outlier scenarios though.
A vehicle is a huge purchase. For many it’s the largest purchase they will make. For everyone else it’s the second largest, behind their home. They want to make sure it does everything they do normally, and everything they might do once in a while.
As a small example, my family travels to a specific lake about once per year, for around a week. We switched cell phone providers to one that worked better at that lake. It costs a bit more, but even though on an average week it doesn’t matter at all if our phones work at that lake because on average we aren’t there, it was important to have our carrier work there. The outlier scenario actually made the decision for us with all other factors equal.
It doesn’t matter if the average buyer isn’t likely to take longer trips frequently. What does matter is that those outlier scenarios can be conceivably accomplished without significant hassle. And before you say that’s not reasonable, consider that it doesn’t matter that it isn’t reasonable.
People base their purchase decisions on unreasonable factors all the time. How else do we explain how many trucks are on the road?
It does not matter that current charging methods cover 99% of scenarios for 99% of people. The glare of that 1% will shine a light brighter than the positives from the standpoint of widespread adoption. And from that perspective, news of a solution to slower charging is a very good thing.
Also slow chargers in houses will not work for many people. The majority of ICE drivers that won’t even consider an EV as an option yet live in apartment buildings which currently don’t have electric charging and likely won’t install them anytime soon, or live in areas without access to a driveway/garage (i.e. basement suites)
Yeah, when recently purchasing a car I ended up getting a hybrid rather than a plug-in hybrid or electric because I live in a townhouse that just has a parking spot. There isn’t a way to charge a vehicle overnight in my situation. If I could charge a vehicle in 6 minutes at a gas station or equivelant I could make an electric car work.
The more arguments that you can take away from ICE owners the better it will be for widespread EV adoption.
Time to recharge is ICE owners biggest complaints, next to single charge range.
No it won’t. It’s bullshit.
I’ve seen these articles literally for the past 3 decades now. It’s all clickbait, it’s bullshit and will. Not. Happen.
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Eh, 15 minutes of charge every 3 hours of driving is fine for me. Long distance is not a problem with the Tesla network. And it’s opening up for everyone else too soon. Hopefully it will cause competition for the other networks and force them to improve.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adfm.202300143
Abstract
Mixed transition metal oxides are promising anodes to meet high-performance energy storage materials; however, their widespread uses are restrained owing to limited theoretical capacity, restricted synthesis methods and templates, low conductivity, and extreme volume expansion. Here, Mn3-xFexO4 nanosheets with interconnected conductive networks are synthesized via a novel self-hybridization approach of a facile, galvanic replacement-derived, tetraethyl orthosilicate-assisted hydrothermal process. An exceptionally high reversible capacity of 1492.9 mAh g−1 at 0.1 A g−1 is achieved by producing Li-rich phase through combined synergistic effects of amorphous phases with interface modification design for fully utilizing highly spin-polarized surface capacitance. Furthermore, it is demonstrated that large surface area can effectively facilitate Li-ion kinetics, and the formation of interconnected conductive networks improves the electrical conductivity and structural stability by alleviating volume expansion. This leads to a high rate capability of 412.3 mAh g−1 even at an extremely high current density of 10 A g−1 and stable cyclic stability with a capacity up to 921.9 mAh g−1 at 2 A g−1 after 500 cycles. This study can help to overcome theoretically limited electrochemical properties of conventional metal oxide materials, providing a new insight into the rational design with surface alteration to boost Li-ion storage capacity.
I asked gpt4 to explain this abstract in terms a high schooler would understand.
Sure, this text is talking about making better batteries. Right now, a type of material called “mixed transition metal oxides” has potential to be a really good component in batteries. But there are problems like they don’t hold as much energy as we’d like, they’re hard to make, and they don’t conduct electricity well.
So, the researchers made a new version of these materials, tweaking them with manganese and iron. They used a new, easier method to make super-thin sheets of this stuff. This new material can hold a lot of energy, way more than the old versions.
The thin sheets also let electric charges move more easily, which is good for battery performance. Plus, they made sure that the material doesn’t expand too much, which helps keep the battery stable over time.
So basically, they made a high-performance battery material that can be charged quickly, holds a lot of energy, and lasts a long time. It’s like creating a new recipe for a better, longer-lasting smartphone battery.
Imo the way things stand things are already good enough as they are.
we don’t need to double battery capacity/distance or even charging speeds, it’s a massive waste of resources that won’t benefit the vast majority of people.
from quick google
Every day, there are some 70 Million (M) worldwide driving trips. The average trip duration globally is 15 minutes long. The average trip distance globally is 15 Kilometers / 9.3 miles. The average speed globally is 30 km/h (or) 18.6 mph
so even if you have a 200km worst case scenario range on your EV, unless you are one of those people that are on the road a lot, it literally covers like 99% of your car usage.
Hyundai EVs charge with 350Kw, to 80% in like 15m which is perfectly fine for a longer roadtrip imo. I used to travel 200kms every two weeks and in most cases I took a rest half way through the 2 hour trip anyway to stretch.
if you are one of those guys that will come on and say you drive 500+kms every day and BEV is just unacceptable for you, well guess what, just get a fucking Hydrogen EV, pretty sure those can get up to 1000km ranges already which is more than my Diesel Hyundai.
Faster charging means a lower chance of all the chargers are in use at the service stations en-route. Currently if you’re in need of a charge you’ll have to wait for the others cars to get charged and then you still have the 20+ minute wait for your own car. That’s going to put a lot of folks off owning an EV. Coupled with the fact the EV uptake is growing a lot faster than the charging infrastructure to support it. Faster charging has a lot of benefits.
except, the vast majority of your trips are from your home to some place and back, you charge at home and the range is more than enough to cover 90+% of your trips.
rather than focusing on super chargers (which we also need along high ways) we need to focus on smaller lvl 2 chargers at places where they make sense, apartment complexes, offices, to enable BEV use for people who don’t own a home with their own garage.
you also completely ignore load balancing of the infrastructure, for one 350KW charger you can create 7 50KW chargers, that means 7 cars being charged while parked at places you spend lots of time at instead of 1 charger charging 1 car.
so like I said, fast chargers make sense next to main roads and highways during long trips and they don’t make much sense at all in cities.
This assumes everyone can have a charger at home. A large portion of people can’t. Apartments, associated spaces, on-road parking… a lot of people need public chargers.
we can build out charging infrastructure for apartments and offices
Average trip duration is not a great metric because they measure a trip as going from point A to point B. That’s great, but then I do six trips a day in errands.
Total miles per day is the metric to use. On average, in America, it’s 37 miles.
That is to say, EV cars would work for many people. But to reach the majority we need these advancements.
why? you literally say 37 miles, that means it’s already good enough for the majority.
Because we’re talking averages. People don’t buy a car to go an average number of miles. People buy a car to cover the maximum number of miles that they would go.
Maybe I average 37 miles a day. But four of those trips are 8-hour drives to see my in-laws. I’m not doing that in my Nissan leaf.
I’m lucky enough to have two cars. My Nissan leaf which I use for everyday driving, and an ICE for the in-law trips and my spouse’s driving. If there were a vehicle with extended range, like 300 mi, and a very quick charge, I would get rid of the ICE. Until then, 50% of my cars are not EV.
people go cars to go places 90%+ of those trips is below 200km
300mi with a quick charge? isn’t Hyundai Ioniq right there?
I still don’t understand why people need ultra distance in EVs. If I drove as much as often as the “I need a million mile range” crew I’d take a good, long look at my life and what was wrong with it.
I mean, it could be part of the job they do, whatever, but people vastly overestimate what they actually need from a vehicle.
If my commute distance was as long as some of these people claim, I’d do any number of things to change that.
there is stuff other than commute, for example a friend of mine works as a mechanic for agricultural machinery.
so there are days where he goes 400km one way to go do repairs on a piece of equipment.
Of course he is an exception to the rule just wanted to point out that there are jobs where you actually have to drive more than a BEVs range in a day.
Sure, it’s the long tail, but everyone pretends they’re in the tip of it.
I think there’s something else behind it honestly. People have grown used to not planning and making long drives randomly and don’t want to have to plan before making a Lewis and Clark length voyage now even if it’s pivotal because of impending climate collapse.
I don’t think the average American has moved very far from being aghast at Jimmy Carter’s suggestion that they wear a sweater when heating prices were high.
We’re spoiled babies and we don’t intend to change, even if it means the end of all things.
Averages are useless. It does not matter if my car is fine most of the time, I’m not going to have a second car for when it is difficult or impossible.
Hydrogen is the other tech which makes quick refuelling possible, but there are not yet enough hydrogen refuelling stations to make them feasible for most drivers. And we don’t yet know if leaks can be controlled enough to make hydrogen a net positive for consumer applications.
Averages are useless. It does not matter if my car is fine most of the time
so what, you would want to triple your battery capacity because once a year you might need it?
why not just a rent car for that one occasion?
Where did once a year come from? I can’t reach any of my family without stopping to charge most (currently affordable) EVs. We only bought a car because it was getting more expensive to rent them when needed (and train prices have doubled), we’re not going to pay twice over.
so that’s what 150+ 200+ km? (and that’s being generously low given something like Hyundai Ioniq 5s range)
is it unfathomable for you to take a 15 minute break during a trip like that?
Where are you getting 15 minutes from? Why do you keep inventing scenarios to make your point?
Why do you keep inventing scenarios to make your point?
bruh
At an ultra-fast 350 kW charger, IONIQ 6 can add up to 351 km of range in just 15 minutes – or charge from 10 to 80% in just 18 minutes! Hyundai’s world’s-first technology in IONIQ 5 & 6 supports both 400V and 800V charging infrastructure.
Now you want everyone to drop £50k on a car?
Come on. Be serious.
Have you rented a car for a week? It’s prohibitedly expensive for most people, especially if it needs to be big enough for the family and a week vacation. I’m considering getting an EV, but it’s only because we’ll have my wife’s gas powered SUV to use for our longer trips, which are 1-4 times a year. That not an unusual need, and one that make exclusive EVs a no-go for a lot of people. Hybrids are an option of course.
it’s not more expensive than owning a second car that’s for fucking sure. I can rent an RV for less than just the typical maintaince cost of a second car
But are either of those options cheaper than getting an EV that doesn’t require you to do either of those things? That’s the decision.
It’s pretty common for people to take their vehicle on road trips even if that’s only 1-2 trips a year.
Road trips are the reason I wouldn’t even be looking at a full EV. I’d be looking at plug-in hybrids. Enough electric for around town trips and gas for when I take it on road trips.
At an ultra-fast 350 kW charger, IONIQ 6 can add up to 351 km of range in just 15 minutes – or charge from 10 to 80% in just 18 minutes!
I am sorry but if you have an issue with taking a 15 minute break every 300 kms or so then maybe the issue lies with you, I mean you literally should take a break like that in those intervals anyway for your health, your focus and thus your safety.
plug-in hybrid is just gonna be less efficient again, it’s cost is higher due to additional stuff in the car and fuel efficiency sucks once the batteries run out.
You have different priorities, and that’s fine. You don’t need to go around acting like your opinion is the only valid one though.
If nothing else, you say 15 minutes as if that’s always how long it’ll be. In an ideal world, yes. Have you not heard/read the multitude of people who have problems with chargers though? Waiting on others to finish, broken chargers, chargers not going their rated speed, etc.
15 minutes isn’t bad. With all I’ve read I just think it’s going to typically be longer than that and I don’t want to add hour(s) to a long trip just because of charging.
For me, vehicle cost of a plug-in hybrid would be the biggest factor. I haven’t really looked since I’m not in the market for one just yet. I can’t imagine it’s going to be worth fixing my 17 y/o Prius for much longer though. While they do need ICE and electric parts, they don’t need nearly the battery capacity. It’s not just slapping on an ICE to something like a Tesla where there would only be extra cost.
This thread is pure copium.
“Guys, go buy a more expensive car, but instead of taking 6 hours to get somewhere more now take an hour and a half. And if it’s a busy travel weekend maybe 3 hours. And don’t forget about the trip back.”
I’m all for EVs being successful but you all force feeding bullshit hand waving down people’s gullets ain’t helping.
The problem is you dismissing reality and inserting your insecurity onto electric cars.
Superchargers are a very big part of why Tesla is ahead of the curve, and you don’t charge 0-100, you charge 15-whatever you need to get where you’re going, which for my six hour drive was a 19 minute charge stop, where we watched Netflix, and I have the slowest charging Tesla.
