I an so sick of the “just don’t buy it” response to people complaining about increasingly shitty practices. It’s like if someone pisses in the far side of the pool and other people decide they like the warmth so they tell you just to stay over on the far side - The pool is still tainted, and maybe next time the pool cleaners decide not to use chlorine…
It’s not that you can’t complain, but moreso that people are tired of reading about people getting ripped of over and over again.
It’s getting old when the solution is so glaringly obvious.Alternatively focus your grievances towards the company. That has a better chance of making an impact in reducing the tainted waters.
So in short: you have a right to complain, but we have a right to tell you that you are a part of the problem if you pre-order or support companies continually doing this crap.
All this while there are plenty of other companies worth supporting. Sure it isn’t your favorite franchise, but we aren’t surprised leopards ate your face, again. I gave up on all those games from these companies and have found a lot of enjoyment elsewhere. Sucks but I refuse to give them money that makes this a viable model for them to fuckup over and over.
Seriously start taking risks on “indie” developers. I know a lot of them aren’t really indie - they’re huge companies with dozens of employees in a lot of cases still, but you’ll find they treat you better. Sure - that $20 game might not be quite as good, but in other cases, I’ve seen them be EVEN BETTER than $70 titles.
Unfortunately it is pretty obvious that the majority of the human population are just going to follow what they’re told to buy via TV and Ads. There aren’t enough of us to turn the tide right away, but hey – stick to your guns, and tell others to as well. It’ll take a bit for players to get well and truly fed up with this shit, but the tide will turn eventually.
Alternatively focus your grievances towards the company.
But why would the company care? They’re marketing directly to a certain kind of person here. Anyone that would pay these prices - and plenty must pay because Blizzard hasn’t blinked ONCE during any of this bullshit - has so much money that they wouldn’t care if the colors were three times that.
Blizzard acts like their bread and butter is the upper-middle-class and it must be true because they don’t change at all as near as I’ve been able to tell. Not only do their sales not take a hit, they just keep growing.
Oh I agree with you wholeheartedly friend!
They don’t care because people keep buying their shit anyways, which is why many of us tell you to stop buying it and then we’ve gone full circle again.I’m not recommending complaining to them because I think they will care. I do it because I it could have a greater impact than complaining here which has exactly zero impact.
I don’t understand how that comparison fits because somebody else buying the portal has literally no impact on my game. Someone pissing in the pool is directly
impacting you with their actions.I think the analogy is that it sets a precedent. Now the other companies see how you can pee in the pool and folks are either cool with it (buy) or are on the other end (not buy but meh). Now the pool standard is piss filled pool and we will never have a chance to get into a clean pool anymore.
If you want to take a swim you have to do it in a pissed soaked pool because we never complained or did anything about it.
But that’s assuming there’s only one pool. If everyone leaves for a pool without piss in it, the first will probably change their policies to not allow peeing in their pools because it drives away customers.
The problem isn’t that there’s only one pool, the problem is that not enough people seem to care enough to try a different one. Instead, they just complain about the pool they’re at, perhaps because the pool is free or it gets a lot of advertising.
So yeah, feel free to complain about it, but your time is probably better spent just going to a different pool.
The pool is the gaming industry dude, not whatever shitty little game blizzard is putting out.
No, it’s not.
I haven’t played a Blizzard game in something like 10 years. Whether they manipulate their customers has zero impact on the games I play, so I’m basically in a completely different pool from them. The way I see it, there are lots of different pools, such as:
- F2P games - has always been a cesspool, and always will be
- online multiplayer - recently turning into a cesspool
- big budget single player - generally good, though “early access” (pay extra to pay a few days really) isn’t great, but I avoid new releases generally because they’re so consistently buggy, so it’s not an issue
- indie/AA - generally great, and this is where I spend most of my time and money
I almost never play F2P or competitive online multiplayer games, so they’re essentially a completely separate pool from the games I play, which are largely single player games from smaller studios (and a few big budget single player games).
So no, it’s not one big pool, there are clear separations.
The issue is that there is only 1 industry. And the end goal of ALL developers and companies is making money. The more the better. When other pools start seeing that pissong in the pool leaves them more money, than they ALL will start designing their games around this. It is this design choice that will infect pretty much all other games. The precedent it sets affects the whole industry.
And like you said before, the only way this is not an issue is if it does not generate additional money for them so that no other pools try to imitate. And this will only happen if nobody buys them. And this post is trying to dissuade those buyers so that this does not become rampart and then all games have it.
But it’s not just one industry, unless you overly generalize.
The motivations that lead someone to buy indie games are much different than someone who mostly plays F2P competitive games, which is much different than the group that buys top end AAA games. So the marketing and profit model will be different for each. I think there are at least these logical segments:
- mobile gaming
- casual gaming (i.e. Switch)
- F2P gaming/eSports
- AAA gaming
- indie/small studio gaming
Each of those has different target demographics, and thus different “pools.”
Do you honestly believe that complaining on Lemmy counts as “doing something about it”?
I only know about this thing because of this post. I’m not going to buy it, but do you see that what you’re doing is getting the word out and doing blizzards advertising for them?
As a consumer we can use our choices where we spend to lead companies one way or the other. Spreading the word to not buy something is “doing something about it”. How effective it may be here in Lemmy, probably not very much, but it’s something.
It only affects you if they tell you. Otherwise it’s hidden to you, too, so the comparison is apt.
Similarly, the company focuses on these mocrottansaction features, which does affect where they spend time developing and also how they design and develop the game.
No because regardless of my knowledge of it or lack thereof I am still swimming in urine, which is a health risk and just gross as hell. This is a bad analogy.
Yep, and just like that, those who don’t partake in mocrottansactions are participating in a game that is tailored to mocrottansactions. How it looks, plays and feels are all affected.
Just like the pool, you can be blissfully unaware and knowing makes it decidedly worse, but it’s worse whether you know it or not.
Extra credit for correctly using affect!!!
Effective education affects us all. Now if only my spell check didn’t correct to mocrottansactions, whatever that is.
I would argue that’s far more indirect and it’s not a 100% evil act to include microtransactions/skins.
Someone peeing in the pool, however gross, is uncaring not evil. I find it odd that rather than reconsider how you thought about it, you double down on accepting it.
I’m not sure if you’re aware, but every pool you’ve ever been in has pee. Every pool. Most people don’t even bother to wash their hands.
The smell people associate with a chlorine pool is actually the smell of the compound created by the chemical reaction of pool shock cleaner and human piss.
If it smells like classic pool? Its probably piss.
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Yes.
And youre currently swimming in a urine filled game, because 1/4 of dev time, money, and company resources are spent on actual game content while the other 3/4 go towards the next round of store items.
The pool is lower quality because of the piss. You can still swim just fine. So shut up and swim. Right?
The game is lower quality because of the focus on microtransactions. You can still play just fine. So shut up and play. Right?
Use a different pool where people aren’t pissing in them. They exist.
There are plenty of other games that don’t pull this shit. Play them instead.
First they did it at EA, but I didn’t say anything because I don’t play EA games. Then they did it at Ubisoft, but I didn’t say anything because I don’t play Ubisoft games. Then they did it at Blizzard, but I didn’t say anything because I don’t play Blizzard games. Then they did it at fromsoft games, but I didn’t say anything because I don’t play fromsoft games. Then they did it at supergiant games, but I didn’t say anything because I don’t play their games.
Then they did it at every other fucking company because it was industry standard.
Then they did it at every other fucking company because it was industry standard.
All you’ve listed are the big publishers. Of course THEY are going to do it. They are publicly traded company’s where they need to draw blood from a stone and pull out as much value as possible to appease their shareholders.
You’re absolutely wrong about every company doing this. It sounds like your only experience is AAA titles.
Play some indie games and you’ll see the difference. Significantly better designed games, built from passion, and without all the bullshit you see with AAA games.
Like I said find a better pool where people aren’t pissing in them. They exist.
I used recognizable names, including respected names such as fromsoft and supergiant which aren’t even doing it. The point I was trying to make was that the more normal and accepted it becomes, the more it will be done and it might eventually become the norm. Like the YouTube title/thumbnail trend. “We have to do it because of the algorithm! We don’t make money otherwise”
In fairness to the complaints, there are fewer and fewer good clean pools, and they tend to be the less-and-less awesome ones.
How so? I’ve had no issues finding games to play that don’t suck
I didn’t say that there are no good games. But genres have been drowned in these microtransaction games enough that it has become disruptive. I find myself sometimes playing games that are in many ways inferior to older games because they are trying to be low-budget disruptors in a market where the high budgets are largely “filled with urine” as it were.
Look at a few companies’ recent “people are just going to have to get used to subscriptions/microtransactions” attitudes. It’s going the same way television has gone. One cannot pretend in good faith overall quality in entertainment is not going down for reasons that the decisionmakers know to be hurting the products.
I know this is a metaphor, but where exactly do they exist? If you’re in a public pool, it’s not like you can go to another town and use theirs. And if it’s your own, chances are you only have one.
Public pools aren’t the only pools. There are literally millions of pools in the world. You have options even when you think you don’t. If you limit yourself to the one and only public pool in town then you’re limiting yourself by only thinking in a box.
There are hundreds of thousands of games in the world. Many of them aren’t AAA garbage fleecing their customers. If you limit yourself to only AAA games then you’re limiting yourself by thinking in a box.
Go on and explore the world already. You have more choices than you think you do.
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People who decide to throw money at games with such shitty practices are part of the problem.
I’d say they are victims of predatory practices.
Like drug addicts. You can’t expect drug addicts to take all the blame. Sooner or later you have to realize that the supplier enabling the addiction is part of the problem.
I’d say they are victims of predatory practices.
That is a very good point regarding children and mentally challenged people. It does not excuse responsible adults though.
Like drug addicts. You can’t expect drug addicts to take all the blame. Sooner or later you have to realize that the supplier enabling the addiction is part of the problem.
That is not the most fitting comparison in my opinion. I think the solution for the drug problem is legalization of all drugs, free access to rehabilitation combined with thorough education and abuse prevention.
I think the point they’re making is that these things (drugs and games) are being designed to be addicting. Game companies literally hire physcologist to design systems that play into addictive personalities. It’s unfair to put all the blame on the person given how these companies act.
It’s unfair to put all the blame on the person given how these companies act.
Agreed. That´s why I´d split the blame between the companies behind such games and their customers and also think selling microtransactions to children and mentally impaired people should be illegal.
To some people, $30 is chump change and they’ll gladly part with it for some glitter. The whole microtransaction business relies on those people as “whales” and you can’t really ask people to “stop paying so much” if they don’t even mind the amount they’re paying
FOMO is strong in them.
Yes, they are. The problem is that they are millions.
Yup. I loved Diablo and I’ve played it since the first one came out. I never bought the last release, though. Fuck Blizzard.
Yes, Diablo 2 was the last good Diablo game. Hate blizzard, love PoE!
I’m trying to stay away from MMOs, which is were all these practices were really born.
No, I love them. They pay so I don’t have to.
That may be true if you’re into some F2P/gacha stuff, but not in a full-price game. These people just encourage more enshitification. Diablo used to have no microtransactions and was arguably a lot better too.
How does this ruin the game?
They see money coming in, so they add more microtransactions.
Okay and? If they are purely cosmetic…why the fuck even care?
Do skins improve the game? No.
It’s ‘wasted’ effort that could be put into making a better game. It’s the concept of opportunity cost but applied to the quality aspect.
Do skins improve the game? No.
For me? Absolutely not. But I see plenty of people who love their skins.
It’s ‘wasted’ effort that could be put into making a better game.
Or, as my experience with the super cell games, it pays the bills and I get more content without paying anything. Seems like a win win to me. If they aren’t making any money from it, why are they going to create more content?
How doesn’t it? Devs work on this bullshit instead of good content.
Or it pays the bills so they can afford creating new content. This is how it always worked with the super cell games I played.
I’m not saying it doesn’t contribute to their bottom line, but it’s not the devs who profit off of microtransactions. It’s the share holders. Game development has existed since the 70s, microtransactions have not. The primary people benefiting from microtransactions are shareholders. And if anything the work load on developers has gotten significantly worse and the quality of games has not gotten better.
Microtransactions suck.
Games haven’t gotten better since the 70s? Lol if you honestly believed that, then micro transactions would be a complete non issue for you because there are countless games out there from before micro transactions, and without them at all, that you could spend a whole life playing.
But let’s be honest here, games have gotten better which is why you want to play the news ones.
I’ve played a lot of super cell games and never paid a dime. Years and years of fun across multiple games, with new content coming out all the time. All funded by micro transactions paid by others.
Now I don’t approve of the gambling aspect of some and p2w can be bad if done incorrectly. But cosmetic purchases that take little time to create and can generate tons of money so I don’t have to pay? Sign me up every fucking day for that. Please pay so I don’t have to.
You paid the bills by purchasing the game.
Diablo isnt a f2p, you paid up front.
Youre paying a second time for less game than cheaper games give you.
This isnt poe.
Youre paying
No, someone else is paying. Which is the beauty to me.
But is there anything missing in diablo 4 that you would have gotten in an earlier version of the game for free? I’m not a big fan of the series so I don’t have a good comparison.
They dont bother making full new expansions. They make half an expansion, and spend twice the time and money making in-game store items.
Youre paying full price for less game and some pretty store windows to walk past.
And with every expansion, less game and more store is made. At least the whales get more content, youre getting even less than that.
At least the whales get more content, youre getting even less than that.
Can you give some concrete examples? As I’ve said elsewhere, I played multiple supercell games, for years each, never paying a dime, and was constantly getting new content. It was the whales supporting my play. Maybe they got to hit their peak ranking higher than me, but we were pretty much doing the same thing at different levels.
Unless we’re talking about skins. I don’t give a shit about skins. Games now a days have way more skins, and I would attribute that at least partially to the expansion of micro transactions.
Examples? How about the game the thread is about? And how dead and devoid its updates have been, with a robust and full shop?
Was the game everyone is talking about for doing this not enough? What about every game that opens a beta, with a fully fleshed out shop but lacking actual finished polished features? Halos recent flops for example?
Do you grasp how poorly your argument looks when youre having to bring up iphone games as your shining example? Games whose active design from menu, to level creation, to difficulty curves, are all built to try and push you towards that shop? Games whose gameplay is directly altered because of the push towards the shop?
And how dead and devoid its updates have been, with a robust and full shop?
This is still pretty vague. Compared to previous diablos pre micro transactions, are there more or fewer updates? Were all of the expansions pay?
Do you grasp how poorly your argument looks when youre having to bring up iphone games as your shining example?
I’m sorry but I didn’t realize that these massively popular games don’t count. Can you give me the criteria for what counts so I don’t make the same mistake in the future?
Lol you think you get a discount because of this.
I know I am because I played 3 super cell games, each for years, and never paid a dime.
They’re the reason these shitty practices are profitable in the first place. Don´t forget we are talking about Diablo IV here, which is a full priced game. Off topic you might have a point concerning F2P games though. However, even the F2P games that are not P2W are usually at least to a certain part “pay for functionality/content/convenience” and not just purely “pay for cosmetics”. Because of this I think it´s generally better to pay once and get a full game for that.
That’s an excellent analogy, to say “you can buy palworld for that” which really makes it hit different for me.
It shows you how absurd it is, even with it being optional. It’s still absurd.
Better yet. For the price of 2 portal recolors, you can get 1 Baldur’s Gate 3.
The cosmetic skin prices in D4 are absolutely laughable, and the fact that they can only be used with ONE class make it even more bonkers.
Most people could buy palworld if they just cooked their own food instead of ordering.
Pretty silly to start saying this with Diablo really, when we can do the same with so many other products and services as well, Ofc it’s really silly to charge 30 for a digital paintjob. But im not gonna police what other people do with their own money.
They worked for it. They spend it.
Someone could give me a billion for a Booger. Would be their right but would make them an idiot aswell.
Right now. Somewhere on Earth. Someone. Is currently purchasing Diablo 4.
P.T Barnums every second a sucker is born quote comes to mind.
And they have to live with the shame.
and Palworld
cept palworld is actually good and worth its price
And will happily drop more cash on microtransactions.
It’s on sale!
It’s probably worth 40 bucks
Blizzard literally became so shitty I can’t waited for Microsoft to take over and clean house.
MS haven’t bought them to clean them up.
They bought them because they’re already the level of shitty they’re aiming for.
“Clean house” feels optimistic. Standard procedure for a buy out:
- Executives are retained or let go with generous packages
- Middle management is summarily executed
- Someone sorts a spreadsheet of developers by salary and lays off the highest paid (and sometimes best, though no telling when we’re talking about these two garbage fires)
- Remaining developers are shuffled. Some are asked to move to teams that are doing wildly different things than what they were doing before. Some teams are filled with lower cost “resources” from other countries.
Nice description of enshittification from behind the scenes.
This is why corporations shouldn’t be able to buy each other! Try that shit out as a model you fucking whores.
They already are in control. Kotick is gone. But yet, shit like this still continues
I played launch and the first two seasons. The game is not fun, but they clearly spend a ton of resources cranking out skins.
Skins are somewhat cool, but shit value since they only work on specific classes.
Meanwhile, skins in POE, arguably a more enjoyable game though dated, are usable across all classes.
Not exactly apples/oranges due to gender locked classes, but still.
And PoE has some of the most expensive cosmetics I’ve seen and even they aren’t as bad as a $30 color variation portal. PoE balances it out because the game is free to play. What’s Diablo’s excuse?
And poe has much cheaper, frequently on sale, qol purchases.
Do I need a $2 currency storage tab? No. Will it make the game mildly smoother, and functionally be the “price” of the game for me if thats all I ever buy? Yup.
Do I get to play as much game as possible before I decide to “buy” the game and get my currency tab? Absolutely.
Cheap qol purchases for a f2p game makes the outrageous cosmetics far more acceptable.
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They’re taking their upcoming DLC’s name “Vessel of Hatred” too literally.
EnShitification
Isn’t that just when they make it worse when it already has a lot of users?
Diablo franchise already had users, yes.
I went to buy a Goal Explosion in Rocket League yesterday. Purely cosmetic item. $25. No thanks.
who needs D4 or their cosmetics? I’m just waiting for Crate to release the new Grim Dawn Expansion, will probably be cheaper than that recolor too lol
Hwhat
An expansion coming?
Yes, it’s called Fangs of Asterkarn
I think I saw they said there is another update coming. Not sure how much actual content there is though. They specifically noted it’s not an expansion / DLC. Just an update.
Nope, a Full Expansion is in the works!
Last epoch 1.0 - 21 February!
I think the issue here is people knew Diablo 4 was filled with monetization, season passes, cosmetic items etc and they bought it anyway and are complaining about it after the fact. The correct way to respond to sleazy companies is to take your business somewhere else. Reward games for being good, not for being cash grabs.
I’m glad I played the beta so I knew I wouldn’t be interested in buying the full game.
blizz - the fuckhole that rapes you
I bought d4 on sale and I’ve gotten 110 hours out of it. Idk why I should be upset about some optional cosmetics that I’m never gonna buy.
And the whole world is just like you! Right? Impossible that somebody could be or think different.
You sound like a person who doesn’t have a problem with drinking that can’t comprehend alcoholism.
I’m just sharing my opinion lol
“You’re not allowed to enjoy that! HOW DARE YOU HAVE FUN”
This may be an unpopular opinion but as I see it most of D4s microtransactions are fine (still a trash game but that’s a different point). They’re mostly just cosmetics. They only exist so that people who want to can throw money at the company. If you don’t want to buy them then just don’t buy them. Like this portal recolor one. Sure it’s $30 but it isn’t like there is any advantage to buying it. It’s not giving you faster warps to town or more xp or anything like that. It’s only there for you to throw money at blizzard and have a graphic showing that you threw money at blizzard. If you don’t want to throw $30 at blizzard for no gain then don’t throw $30 at blizzard for no gain. If a bunch of whales want to throw away their money on cosmetics then let them.
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The dev time spent on garbage micro transactions could be spent on making a good game.
In addition to that jimquisition that another user commented, remember that its easy to say “it doesnt affect me if i dont buy it” but people do buy it. Some people spend silly money on cosmetics and if people keep dojng that then it encourages game companies to spend less time on making the games good and more time on pumping out cosmetics.
The proof is in tbe pudding. Games are mostly shit now.
These are massive companies whos sole aim is to make money, not entertaining games. They dont care, they will just follow the money.
This is mostly a me problem but I get mad at the very idea of someone spending $30 on a skin. That is such a clash with my values it’s upsetting.
Like, I don’t want to slide all the way down the “why spend any money on fun when people are starving” slope. I understand that people need some joy in their life.
But I just don’t see how the skins in these games bring joy anywhere near the money charged for them. Like the title, you could buy a whole other smash hit game for that much money! Plus tons of other non game stuff. That’s a small dinner with friends. That’s a small band’s concert.
So I just get kind of mad that people are spending their money on this stuff at all. It’s not a good use of money. Stop it. Be better at money. Reminds me of an old friend’s idiot brother that would blow his money on expensive not-bulk soda and candy when he needed a new keyboard. Like literally failing the marshmallow test.
But I can’t control other people. Sadly.
That’s before any of the “blizzard wants money. They see the huge ROI for this stuff. It’s a better ROI than other content. They will make more skins instead of other content” train of thought.
With apologies for this longish rant.
But I just don’t see how the skins in these games bring joy anywhere near the money charged for them.
The simple answer is that, for a fair amount of people, $30 isn’t a notable purchase, such that it’s not particularly a substitute for anything else they may be interested in doing.
Is that true? Something like 40% of Americans don’t have $400 on hand. Maybe the people spending money on this trend wealthier?
I feel like you’d have to be pretty wealthy for $30 to be unremarkable.
Maybe the people spending money on this trend wealthier?
I mean we’re already looking at a fairly expensive hobby in gaming, which is going to skew towards people with more money in the first place.
And just speaking from my own perspective as solidly middle class, $30 is pretty comfortably within what I can spend without particularly thinking about it. Like yeah, I obviously can’t just throw $30 at everything I see, it adds up over time, but it’s low enough that I don’t particularly have to think about exactly where it will come out of my budget.
And fwiw, I tend to avoid most in-game micro transactions, because I simply don’t value them all that highly. I barely even care about getting free unlocks in most games.
There’s a number of reasons that “it’s just cosmetic” is bullshit.
- Developer time and effort is limited. More effort on cosmetics is less time on other things.
- “free” cosmetics will intentionally be made worse than premium ones to drive conversions.
- the game loses the ability to reward impressive feats with cosmetics, as that harms sales.
- a non-zero amount of your time is spent being driven to purchase cosmetics.
