- cross-posted to:
- israelpalestine@jlai.lu
- cross-posted to:
- israelpalestine@jlai.lu
Biden administration dramatically softens the sanctions it imposed on the seven Israelis from the Israel Defense Forces and makes it clear that they will be able to use their bank accounts.
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Sanctions just 7 settlers instead of the state directly backing settlements and can’t even keep that up. Fucking pathetic.
Because Israel will blackmail the USA and expand their genocide even more.
The American folding comes in the wake of Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich’s threat to collapse the Palestinian economy, as revealed in Israel Hayom
And now these fascists will use that as a threat to extort the USA at every step. They must be completely cut off from US aid.
And now these fascists will use that as a threat to extort the USA at every step. They must be completely cut off from US aid.
Absolutely spot on! #NoWarButClassWar ✊️
BDS is the only way
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The world power needs to understand that it has crossed the line
So showing any backbone is crossing the line? Wow.
I think for a world power such language should have been a reason to double down on punishing those little punks.
all palestinian violence against israel is self-defense.
Settler colonialism is one of the most vile, disgusting crimes against humanity, and it is our duty to move in favor of liberation for all peoples.
He’s got a “complicit in genocide” reputation to upkeep after all.
More like co-author
If I’m reading this correctly, this decision was made because Smotrich threatened to sever all Israeli banking relations with the Palestinian Authority, which since the PA depends on Israeli banks to function, would have ruined the Palestinian government in the West Bank. I don’t like that this is how it’s going down, but definitely see the rationale, and don’t think the Biden Admin is wrong to protect the PA. There’s plenty criticism to heap on the US for their relationship with Israel, but I don’t think this is one of them. The problem here is Smotrich and the Netanyahu government.
The PA is pretty much entirely controlled by the Israeli military now. It being shut down might actually allow orgs that actually serve Palestinian interests to take power.
Regardless, this is obviously just an excuse to stop the sanctions. Israel is entirely dependent on the US and these “threats” are toothless. If Biden gave a fuck at all, he would simply threaten to cut off funding to Israel in return.
The “might” in that sentence is doing some heavy lifting. I think the collapse of the PA would lead to worsening chaos in the West Bank, especially financially, and would directly harm Palestinians.
Not at all. You can remove that first paragraph entirely and my point comes across just fine.
There wasn’t a second paragraph when I responded lol.
I still seriously disagree with you, a disruption of the Palestinian Authority would 100% be worse for the Palestinian people in the West Bank. Which “orgs” do you think are suddenly going to step in and be better?
Israel is entirely dependent on the US
Israel has a robust economy and is quite capable of conducting the war it wants all on its own.
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Not in the west bank
You got downvoted, but you are correct.
This is just a little something to keep in mind the next time some Israeli tries to argue that “it’s not an occupation.”
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I think you misunderstand, Netanyahu and his allies want extremists in charge. They have spent the last two decades trying to delegitimize the PA because they are a moderate Palestinian government, and the same two decades propping up Hamas. When extremists are in charge, Netanyahu knows he can more easily justify killing Palestinians and taking Palestinian land
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The problem here is Smotrich and the Netanyahu government.
Can they just send a few killer drones after the two guys mentioned? It’s fair game, USA uses those outside of its territory, Israel uses those outside of its territory.
Of course there’s going a shitfest of indignation from Israelis, but that’ll be in any situation which is not successful ethnic cleansing with no consequences.
More concisely, the problem is Israel.
There’s useless and then there’s you people.
If people took half of the energy they spend shaming people for not adhering to the two-party system and turned it to pressuring Biden to be a better candidate he’d have switched positions by now
biden has been a zionist for probably longer than you’ve been alive
you’re not going to push him left. ever.
I doubt it. Biden doesn’t give a hoot about what his voting base thinks or wants because they’re going to mindlessly vote for him no matter how many genocides he does
Disagree, if the centrists, liberals, and Vote Blue No Matter Who crowd worked him over half as hard at they work over us there’d be no reason not to give in.
Except for the main reason of “all of Biden’s donors would leave him.” Neoliberal democracy has nothing to do with voters, it has everything to do with fundraisers. If Biden loses his fundraisers to someone else, the voters will follow, because that money will buy the propaganda to move them. This is how neoliberal democracy works. To think otherwise is idealist; it has never worked that way and it never will work that way under the current system.
A chunk of the funders hedge their bets though, right?
And what organization that has spent potentially MILLIONS of dollars at this point is just going to walk away from their investment instead of allowing their pet capital critter a bit of slack on the leash to give some crumbs to the unwashed masses to quiet us down?
But how do you pressure him into being a better candidate when the only threat you have against him, i.e. voting him out, is held hostage by the fact that if you do vote him out an even more extreme radical will get in power?
Almost like we need ranked choice voting and eliminate the electoral college so we can have more than 2 choices.
Democrats consistently support & pass RCV, while Republicans repeal & ban it. If you want RCV, you need to support Dems in the meantime.
On March 28, a District of Columbia Superior Court dismissed a lawsuit filed by the Democratic Party to stop an initiative from qualifying. The initiative hasn’t even gathered the signatures yet, yet the Democratic Party had been hoping to block it. The judge said the lawsuit isn’t ripe, and could be filed again if the initiative qualifies and passes. The initiative also would change the law to let independent voters vote in partisan primaries, but it is not an initiative that abolishes the ability of parties to have nominees.
It wasn’t just Republicans who opposed the system. Democrats were in power in some cases and also opposed it. That’s why we got ranked-choice, it was done through a ballot initiative because neither party wanted to implement it or to pass a law that would implement it.
Fucking genocide loving liberal
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Checking in from the Moscow Central Shitpost Infiltration Unit, where all 12 of us are working overtime to post on lemmy.ml and swing the election in favor of Orange Man.
you fucking moron
Typical liberal. “I won’t face the horrors being perpetuated by the guy I’m trying to force you to vote for! You’re the bad person! 😡”
You’re honestly making the accelerationist vote look appetizing. And you should be terrified of that.
Not a liberal and I don’t live in the US. You probably don’t either.
I do. And I realize it is the true terrorist.
What is a terrorist?
A person using fear and violence to get you to believe what they believe in.
Tell me where the citizens of the many coups America had committed, asked for America to commit said coups?
Ah the USA capitulating to terrorists and war criminals all in the name of money.
When the Lobby has such pull on the White House over blatant genocide, do not doubt who is in or is trying to be in real control. So much for conspiracy theories.
Just don’t blame the voters with spines when he loses the election.
Edit: To all the geniuses saying Trump is worse, you are no different than MAGA. Saying you’ll vote for Biden regardless of a fucking genocide means that he’ll get away with anything. If you morons actually cared you would have protested instead of trying to make people vote for a genocidal zionist cuck. Yet here we are.
Joe Biden isn’t catering to me and my friends
Apparently not wanting to fund a genocide with my tax dollars is the same as me bitching about gas prices. The funniest part is that these people think that they are so much better than MAGA.
As long as they didn’t vote for the fascist who intends to start a dictatorship and also supports Israel just as strongly.
Trump also has a plan to end birthright citizenship & deport Muslims starting on day one of his rule in 2025.
They already have the list thanks to the census.
Put on your own oxygen mask before worrying about helping others.
I’m voting Biden in 2024 strictly so that I can vote at all in 2028.
You already did that with Hillary, really worked out great for everyone, huh? I do not understand how anyone can consider a second Trump presidency preferable to Biden just not doing as much as they would like.
What exactly do you think Trump would be doing in any way better in this situation?
Being bitter about your choices so letting others make the choice for you is way more spineless.
Nope.
Progressives held their noses and voted for Clinton, and again for Biden, and some are finally realizing as long as they vote “blue no matter who” the people running the DNC will never give a shit about them.
And while “vote in the primary” used to be common advice, NH lost their delegates for something Dems in NH have zero control over after voting progressive over party favorite against Clinton and Biden.
And lots of us live in states that don’t have primary votes before the party names their leader.
If your mad things changed, be mad at the DNC for taking away primaries.
Not voters who decided acting like Republicans the last 30 years hasn’t helped anyone
Very much disagree. It seems you’re suggesting that the fallout from another Trump presidency will lead to better long term results than a second Biden presidency?
What happens to Ukraine after you stick it to the man and support Trump? Nobody is learning the lesson you want them to. You’re supporting a dictatorship through cynicism. You can be mad at more than one group. DNC could be doing more. Biden could be doing more. Normal voters acting like helping a literal traitor back into office is the better alternative could be doing better.
Like it or not (I don’t), we are stuck with the two choices. Helping the guy who literally says he wants to be a dictator is illogical in every context. If you actually care, volunteer in local elections and donate to candidates that support your views, help create a strong next generation of progressive democrat candidates.
It seems you’re suggesting that the fallout from another Trump presidency will lead to better long term results than a second Biden presidency?
I’m saying:
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as long as progressives vote “blue no matter who” party leaders won’t stop moving right.
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Primaries have continued to be less open ever since Obama beat Clinton in 08.
Obama flipped lots of red states that general.
We all saw how effective that was. But party leaders don’t want that type of candidate. So they pulled him to the right, gave him a conservate friendly Dem as VP, and as of 2024, started cancelling Dem primaries if it’s an earlier state that votes progressive.
I don’t think they’ll ever cancel my states primary tho, in fact even when Bernie refuses to drop early the DNC always says the primary is over before my state gets to vote.
The DNC doesn’t give a single fuck about me. If they were legit trying to win and help when they get in office it would be different.
But they’re just not doing enough.
So tell me.
What’s your suggestion to make them listen to their base instead of chasing voters who have never voted D and just straight ticket vote R?
What’s your suggestion to make them listen to their base instead of chasing voters who have never voted D and just straight ticket vote R?
Split ticket voting. Local elections, local primaries, down ballot votes. We need a generational shift in party leadership. Party leaders generally start as smaller/more local candidates. If you have a strong roster of “up and coming” progressives winning primaries and elections those progressives get more power and sway in the party as they win bigger offices.
I think it would send largely the same message you want without the global harm to have Biden stuck with a Republican legislature. They are still bad, but Trump is the cult leader and the actual danger.
But the party acts against them in primaries and AIPAC will put ridiculous money against them that their constituents will never be able to match, and they don’t take shady PAC money to make up for it.
And in the House, there’s so many seats in rural areas where even 20k to a PAC can but the election.
We’ve been trying that, and it’s still not working fast enough.
The water is still rising and our lifeboat is still sinking.
And supporting Trump is like lighting the rest of the ship on fire so people will start paying attention to the problem.
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My mad things haven’t changed in four years. It can be very frustrating indeed, but under the circumstances, I’d call that a win.
My mad things haven’t changed in four years. It can be very frustrating indeed, but under the circumstances, I’d call that a win.
And if you look at it on a longer time scale, what we’re doing isn’t working.
More damage is caused than we can fix. So we’re still moving backwards.
Like, let’s say you’re on a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean, and it springs a leak.
The fastest way to start getting the water out is bailing it out with your hands. But what if the water comes in faster?
Keep using your hands because it’s removing water? Eventually the boat sinks.
Maybe you find a bucket, but you still have to continually use it or you sink, you’ll never sleep and eventually you can’t keep up.
So, you think for a second while the boat fills with water. And you shove stuff into the hole to plug the leak. You’re still not done, because you have to bail out the water. But no more is coming in, you can do it slowly if you want.
In this analogy republicans are the leak. And bailing water out with our hands is Joe Biden.
Four years ago it was Biden, 8 years ago it was Clinton.
It’s not a viable long term strategy. And there is zero reason to think 2028 will be different if we keep continuing as normal.
So again,
What’s your suggestion to make them listen to their base instead of chasing voters who have never voted D and just straight ticket vote R?
I’ve thought about, for over a decade now. Ever since Obama turned out to be far less progressive than he campaigned as.
I legitimately see no long term plan with a better chance to take the party left.
Tell the class what your plan is. How do we stop the leak?
Not the other commenter BUT, It took the right wing 7 decades to drag the country as far right as they have. We’re here now and I suspect the left won’t be able to drag it back in any less honestly.
The other commenter already answered your question. There needs to be a generational shift in the party. The way that happens is by running strong, local candidates that can take control of the conversation and push their ideas, that’s how you win in a democracy. The other option is to coup.
Look at what the right has done over decades, they’ve seized control of local and state legislatures across the country. They ran candidates in places that were easy to win and in seats nobody wanted. There are conspiracy theorists on school boards deciding what can be taught, it’s wild.
My plan is simple and I repeat it as often as I can, especially to trans and BIPOC friends. Voting is the absolute minimum you can do to participate. Network with like-minded people around you. The police will not protect our communities. Get a gun or two (a long one and a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn some basic first aid, you just need to be able to stabilize someone.
What exactly do you think will change if you keep voting for the same guy regardless of anything he does?
It’s not regardless of anything he does. There is a floor. It’s Donald J Trump, and project 2025.
If he was doing, or likely to do, worse things than grifting the American people for his personal wealth, pardoning dozens of heinous criminals, stripping our rights away like reproductive healthcare, overturning the affordable care act, rigging the tax code in favor of small businesses, rolling back environmental regulations and any progress we have made towards decarbonizing our economy, backstabbing our allies and gutting the administrative state in favor of christofacists then trump would be the better choice.
I can’t imagine what could be worse, but I couldn’t imagine Trump before he took office either.
Withholding your vote for Biden is an endorcement of Trump and the Republicans. Democrats and leftists will never hear “Oh man I should be offering people some real left wing policies so they will finally turn out for me.” They will 100% of the time hear “people really like this right winger, I need to be more like him if I want to be elected.” And the Republicans will see it as a signal to move even farther to the right. The Overton window will shift until balance will be restored.
Denying this reality is a failure of imagination. Things can ALWAYS get worse. The Dems will ALWAYS be the better option. But they could be a better or worse depending on how many of the last few elections they won.
If you care for the Palestinian people, you will vote for Biden and the democrats instead of the party that are frothing at the Mouth to accelerate the genocide.
I’ll blame the voters that voted for a christofascist.
And who do you imagine these spine-wielding voters will be voting for exactly?
Third party or nobody. Maybe Mr. Literally Anybody Else.
Unfortunately, that just makes it easier for Trump to win.
Skeletor I suppose.
BADUMM TSS
Not voting is still voting, friend. Fix the system after Biden gets reelected, rather than end up in bigger shit than we’re already wading through. Not voting has never fixed anything.
I detest them both. I’m still voting for Biden (though I did just send another email to the White House threatening not to).
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How about this: I more mean to fix the system after Trump DOESN’T get elected. That guy wants to be dictator, and we’ve got enough problems without also living under a dictatorship. What do you think will happen if you vote in Trump?
I understand the notion of exploding the system, and like I said I’m not a fan of Biden. But you should have voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2020 primary. Trump isn’t a means for positive change.
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Yep, a dictatorship would definitely be different! Enjoy!!
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Lol I love this take.
Normal people:
Donald Trump getting elected will be bad for labor rights, abortion rights, voting rights, LGBTQ rights, among a ton of other freedoms. I should do the simple thing and vote for Joe Biden even though I disagree with some of his policies and he hasn’t taken a strong enough stance on others that I support. I understand he has to compromise and can’t tailor his policies exactly to my niche beliefs. Even if I don’t vote, Biden or Trump will be president; I should vote for the one that will at least do some of the things I support.
The brave freedom fighters on Lemmy with a spine:
Joe Biden isn’t catering to me and my friends, I’m not voting for that capitalist neo liberal pig Joe Biden. Surely the Democrats will call me next time they nominate a candidate, after all we should be catered too even though we’re an extremely small community.
Joe Biden isn’t catering to me and my friends
No one’s complaining about a candidate not “catering” to them. They’re complaining about Biden being a zionazi and committing a genocide. Even going as far as to bypass congress to send “isreal” weapons faster.
I understand that you’re angry, but do you think Trump will protect Palestinians? He also wants to maintain US military might in the middle east, and he’s also beholden to Zionists.
Work on getting third parties on the ballot so we can actually get a choice next time around. Find a minor politician who you generally agree with and see what they think would help fix our process. Join a union.
Wanting to stop Israel from murdering children: “catering to me and my friends”
Genocide is just such a niche issue I don’t see how you expect Biden to care /s
even though we’re an extremely small community
You’ll see how “small” this community is in November.
What are you in favor of? I get that you are sick of Biden’s status quo, but are you actually in favor of Trump?
I’m in favor of people voicing their concerns. Because they expect you to vote regardless of anything. And nothing is going to change with that mind set. You can’t expect a reaction without an action.
Actually, they don’t expect you to vote. What percentage voted in the last presidential? The midterms? Now break that down by age. Numbers are low. The Democran and the Republicrat powers that be have perfected a system in which most people feel powerless and unheard. The binary works great for that, and they keep each other in power.
True change will only be possible when 3rd party candidates become viable. There’s no single way it can look: ranked choice voting, parliamentary representation, whatever. But until we get actual choices about who governs us…
I understand that people want change. I do too. But to me, voting for Trump is one of two options presented by those in power, and might result in real losses in future voting rights, along with real losses to our judicial system. Can’t we come up with something better than that? Electing Trump is not a solution to anything. Neither is Biden, but at least he’s not an active threat to voting rights.
People suck at collectivizing. It’s still what we need to do. Direct democracy, proportional representation, and more than two choices. I’m not sure how we get there, but it’s where we need to be.
I’m sure your little club is just big enough to get Donald Trump elected, that’s how margins work.
Unfortunately for you there a magnitudes more voters that would be alienated by your fringe politics, so most elected officials aren’t going to give your ideas priority. To think otherwise is the attitude of a petulant child that wants a happy meal when the rest of the family wants to go to sushi.
Despite all that I think you’ve convinced me. The best way to stop the genocide in Gaza now, in March of 2024, is to make sure that the Zionist, single state solution, ban on Palestinian immigration candidate gets elected to be our president in from 2025 through 2029. That will definitely teach those damn establishment Democrats to listen to us, and will 100% improve the lives of the people in Gaza and the west bank. I’m sure that Trump is just joking about immigrants tainting the blood of America. He’s surely not serious about project 2025, or enacting a nation wide abortion ban after 6 weeks. We have to get this guy elected in November to stop the genocide today.
Soy
Israel runs on American dollars, without American dollars Israel cannot exist.
Shekel barely counts as a seperate currency.
Vote socialism in 2024 or you’re getting the orange
We’re getting the orange anyway because the Democrats would rather preserve their AIPAC funding than win an election.
And besides; the Socialist Party is an FBI front organization, the PSL is content to ignore Russia’s war on Ukraine, and even though the Greens have decent politics they’re still being used by everyone as a wedge to split the Democrat vote in favor of Republicans. There’s no way to vote for socialism that isn’t self-defeating.
What information do you have that the PSL is a front?
LOL
All I could find is a sussy substack and Reddit posts. It could be true.
The PSL are state socialists, their entire reason for existing is to be a front for state-aligned interests.
That’s what I’m seeing too. They have to say that, or be labeled as domestic terrorists. Any openly revolutionary party is a threat.
Indeed. Parties which actually pose a threat to the current establishment aren’t permitted to organize.
Playing “Spot the Fed” was a popular passtime at Occupy.
If anything, the PSL is a front for Russia, given that Russia has featured them on Russian state media. But I don’t see them as being a threat to the Democrats. A quick look at their Wikipedia page shows that the most percentage votes they ever got in an election was 40%, and that was just 57 votes in a college town.
It’s a pity the US doesn’t have a parliamentary system. It would make so much more sense to have something like Greens, Socialists, and Democrats forming a coalition.
Is Biden the socialism?
Oh man, if socialism were on the ballot I’d happily vote for it. Maybe I’ll write that in when I go vote.
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Guess who’s taking about Trump here? NOBODY.
You have absolutely no idea how weak this line of argument makes Biden look. Oh you’d be better than literally the worst person to have ever been president? Wow omg I can’t wait to vote for you. Talk about a low fucking bar.
That’s odd, because if you bothered to look any further down you actually would see comments talking about Trump, and there were more before.
But that aside, you’ll find that’s because I’m not advocating for Biden - any more progressive candidate would’ve been better, but that’s not what we got. What I AM advocating is against Trump - I hardly think I need to explain why.
Since it’s basically impossible for an independent to win, if you don’t want Trump, your only option is Biden. That’s it, whether we like it or not.
Since it’s basically impossible for an independent to win, if you don’t want Trump, your only option is Biden. That’s it, whether we like it or not.
I agree.
But this post is about a thing Biden has done. Surely you can see how so many people jumping right to this “lesser of two evils” argument in response to something like this might look like an attempt to shield him from criticism?
Honestly what could Biden actually do that would change the choice on election day? Unless he transforms into literally Hitler it is kind of a given that any reasonable person needs to vote for him, surely?
As I said before, I was focusing on all the replies that were around when I first commented that were commenting on/advocating for Trump - that is why I said “I’m surprised how many people think Trump of all people is going to somehow handle to both Ukraine and Israel better than Biden”, because that is the sentiment I saw.
I can see how that would look like an attempt to shield him from criticism, but at the same time I don’t think I’m wrong in saying it doesn’t really matter - unless you want Trump in the Whitehouse again, Biden is the only choice…
I’m not saying I like the fact that the only two candidates we have are basically “allow the genocide to continue for the foreseeable future” or “escalate the genocide, and let Russias do what they want to Ukraine”, but that is what we’re stuck with.
What your other choice, there, genius.
Is this post about the election? Or the fucking CURRENT PRESIDENT’S decisions?
Edit: the other choice, which should worry everybody, is not voting. Doesn’t matter if it’s illogical, lots of voters are illogical
Isn’t there a possibility to vote for a third / minor party?
If yes, this would be the best choice instead of not voting.
Yeah of course that is possible. With the US system though it seems like there is literally no point. If you don’t want trump you should vote for Biden, that is the only choice.
But the fact that this is brought up every time Biden does something shit or supports a genocide or whatever is what I take issue with. The election has made people too wary to criticise him and they are apparently blind to how stupid this looks. Like they learned nothing whatsoever from 2016.
Anyway I’m not American anyway so don’t worry about it. The situation is the same in the UK except Labour is comfortably going to win anyway despite having a dog shit candidate. Biden I’m not so sure, and that worries me.
The third (minor) parties are just spoiler candidates put in place or at least supported by the two major parties.
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Oh look, a completely fallacious and divisive comment
Damn, you must’ve dug deep for that scathing nickname - but do you seriously think I’m wrong?
It doesn’t matter what could have happened, who could have done what, the situation is that your choices are Biden or Trump, and one of those is a whole lot worse than the other, despite what some other people commenting on this post think.
Trump has literally done nothing as remotely as evil as Biden’s relentless support of Israel’s genocide. Would it be worse under Trump? Potentially, but Trump isn’t president right now
The word you’re looking for there is “yet”, and that “yet” would be doing a whole lot of heavy lifting.
I’ll defer back to my initial comment - if you want to let Trump in and find out, you’d better be ready to shut it when he does worse.
You cannot beat anyone over the head with a moral cudgel when you are supporting genocide. Period. Frankly, supporting Biden – perhaps the most ardent Zionist in American politics – is so morally despicable that it makes me feel physically ill. If you the status quo is acceptable to you, then by all means continue giving it your approval.
Don’t you fucking dare, however, suggest that people refusing to hand their vote to that evil cretin are somehow the ones OK with what’s going on in Palestine.
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Spoiler: they think the horsey is worth it
