• m-p{3}@lemmy.ca
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    1 month ago

    Would be nice if there were some actual alternatives about the same price range and not using proprietary softwares…

    • dinckel@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Unfortunately anything open will cost extra, just because of the nature of it. Not to mention the colossal scale of how much product DJI ship, to cut costs somewhere

      • BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        The reduction of monitoring is worth it. DJI calls home with your location and even provides tools for police to view the location of drones and drone operators in real time.

        • sunzu@kbin.run
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          1 month ago

          I am confused then what is Congress’ problem here?

          Aint this where they are taking us anyway? Or they are worried commie police also getting the same info?

          • Grippler@feddit.dk
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            1 month ago

            I am confused then what is Congress’ problem here?

            The data is also available to DJI, and through them the CCP.

            • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              I have to inform you that that US has some of the best spy satellite networks on the planet.

              People shocked that other countries play the spook game too is amazing.

            • essteeyou@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              So they’ll be able to see that I recorded some footage of some boats near San Francisco?

              • stoy@lemmy.zip
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                1 month ago

                This could be a severe national security problem if the drones sent back the video to DJI as well, then a foreign power would get geotagged high detail video of areas of the part of SF you flew over, VERY useful to a foreign intelligence service.

                And I am not just talking about your drone and your flight, all other people who own and fly drones in the area would also supply data to sutch a system.

                I am not saying that this is what they are doing, but please remember that the Brittish government asked the public to send in their holliday photos of the coast of France to help them plan the D-Day invasions. This kind of information is useful.

                • essteeyou@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  If they wanted to, they could just send a few Chinese “tourists” over with their DJI (or American) drones and record specific footage instead of metadata about general footage. Or use their satellites. It’s not the 1940s any more.

                  When I fly my drone it’s not connected to WiFi, and doesn’t even need to be connected to my phone. What network are they sending gigabytes and gigabytes of video data over when I’m recording people fishing on a lake in the middle of nowhere?

                • ShepherdPie@midwest.social
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                  1 month ago

                  How realistic is this though?

                  I thought most people slap a GoPro on their drone (admittedly know very little about the hobby) and how would China secretly be transmitting so much data (4k video) without anyone noticing?

                  Plus if they want surveillance video, they can just have someone fly their own drone here and capture exactly what they want without having to wade through tons of junk that isn’t important to them.

                • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  At least that was consentual. The UK government basically said "Hey guys, the nazis are bad. So help us plan an attack by sending us your family vacation photos of some beaches on Frances beaches.

                  And everyone was like “yeah, alright. That sounds good”

                  China is basically like “lets set up spying EVERYWHERE! Even in countries we don’t have claim to.”

          • Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca
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            1 month ago

            https://www.theverge.com/22985101/dji-aeroscope-ukraine-russia-drone-tracking

            Something that stuck out to me:

            The AeroScope signals are not encrypted, despite what we wrote in a previous version of this post — even though DJI and an independent source both told us they were encrypted, and DJI insisted they were when we did a fact-check, DJI now admits that they aren’t encrypted at all. So they could be picked up by other kinds of receivers.

            • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              So the verge just took a foreign for profit company at their word, and called it “fact checking”???

              Modern investigative journalism everybody!

        • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Oh no, not the location data that has to be shared publicly for safety reasons anyways! God forbid!

    • potatopotato@sh.itjust.works
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      1 month ago

      Literally all of the alternatives are open and much more capable for it. You can go buy a pixhawk and basically any frame and have something much more powerful for much less money, you just have to be willing to bolt two or three parts together.

  • potatopotato@sh.itjust.works
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    1 month ago

    I’m adjacent to the industry. This is dumb but I understand the reasoning. We’re getting left behind in the electronics world. Nobody is creating hardware startups because every few months there’s a viral blog post with a “hardware is hard” title on HN and none of the VC assholes want to fund anything but web based surveillance capitalism ad tech because it’s a surefire way to make money. Even if you do get funded and you’re US based you’re absolutely doing all your manufacturing in China if you’re remotely consumer facing (b2big-b has different rules). That means Chinese companies get all the benefits of all the labor from your highly trained engineers when they get the design files. If you try to build anything at volume in the US you have strikingly few options for boards and parts. Everything is whole number multiples of fucking PCBway and half the time it’s lower quality unless you’re paying aero-defense prices which is the only business anyone wants.

    • sudo@programming.dev
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      1 month ago

      We let almost all manufacturing jobs go overseas just to cut labor costs and now we’re suffering the consequences and our government completely incapable of doing what’s necessary to bring that manufacturing capability back to the US. At this point basic Keynesians economic policy is tantamount to heresy for anyone but the far left. Its like we’ve adopted the economic policies we forced on third world nations, and found ourselves with a third world economy.

      Being able to produce cheap drones as good as DJIs is far more important for national security than whatever espionage risk they pose. Cheap, easy to use, drones like the dji phantom are omnipresent in current wars. Banning them prevents us from learning via competition or basic reverse engineering.

      • potatopotato@sh.itjust.works
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        1 month ago

        Its like we’ve adopted the economic policies we forced on third world nations, and found ourselves with a third world economy

        Foucault’s boomerang at work, just like US counter insurgency tactics now being employed by US police.

    • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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      1 month ago

      People shit on China all the goddamn time here but they’ve done a prolific job becoming the tech and manufacturing leader in a handful of decades.

      Blame it on tech espionage if you want but there’s a reason the US is deadset on targeting Chinese imports, and it’s hardly for any of the security reasons they might be tempted to claim it to be. The US is about to be left behind and it’s noones fault but our own.

      • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Tech espionage is a pretty big problem though, not something anyone should hand-wave away as irrelevant.

        • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
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          1 month ago

          Maybe in a particular light, but I’m personally of the opinion that intellectual property and patent law is antithetical to good social policy… so idk. Ideally we’d all benefit from the knowledge and ingenuity of all mankind but in a capitalist economic world-view there’s no place for egalitarianism so…

          If they can take the same tech and make it better/produce it cheaper then I think that’s great, go nuts.

          But that’s obviously just me.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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      1 month ago

      But why do we need to build stuff here? If it’s cheaper elsewhere, let them build it and we’ll do the higher paying work.

      I guess there are national security concerns, but that sounds like we just need to make more friends and fewer enemies, as well as have redundancy in our supply chain (i.e. invest in other inexpensive labor markets, like LATAM, Africa, and India). The issue isn’t that the US isn’t making it, it’s that China is making most of it. Diversify and the problem mostly goes away.

      • Etterra@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Because it leaves the industry vulnerable in case China decides to start withholding sales to the US. Especially if they invade Taiwan and trigger a chain reaction of treaties that launches into a huge US vs China slugging match. One which China would likely lose painfully to, but would inflict crippling damage to our military. Anything coming out of China will be stopped for as long as the war goes on, and then even longer depending on how much of what I’m China actually got destroyed.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          1 month ago

          That’s what diversity in supply is for. If we’re at war with China, we can probably still ship stuff in from LATAM and Africa.

          We don’t need to make stuff in the US to be secure, we just need to not rely on one country.

          • Alpha71@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            It’s already happening. Alot of manufacturing has moved from China to India already.

            • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Also South Korean companies are divesting out of China. Samsung even produces TVs in Europe nowadays.

          • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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            1 month ago

            And that’s why only Chinese stuff is banned, not all ex-US drones / electric cars.

            China only has themselves to blame. They intentionally break WTO rules regarding unfair subsidies for their domestic companies. Plus they steal technology and ideas from every company manufacturing there. It doesn’t matter for toasters or t-shirts, but high tech stuff is more important.

            No other country does this, especially not with government support.

            • pop@lemmy.ml
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              1 month ago

              Plus they steal technology and ideas from every company manufacturing there.

              Stealing is the norm for every developed nation. They didn’t just spin out of nowhere and became a super-power. Heard anything about hiring literal Nazis for space program? Does that count as unethical or stealing for you?

              No?

              I mean Nazis are bad, right? They were supposed to pay for what they did. But not these ones, these were the “good ones”, so it’s fine?

              What about tech and knowledge stolen from colonial eras? Too old? it was the norm, not relevant anymore, it’s okay when we did it or any other bs reason you come up with. However, doing the same now is unethical because the colonials created the “WTO” to protect their interests, but others arent playing your game, you’re losing, and it’s just not fair?

              It’s fine when you steal tech and talent (even if they were helped cause genocide) and US isn’t shy supporting Israel do genocide again.

              But as soon as other country uses what’s made made available to them, use spies, and steals, It’s unethical. The IPs that few countries arbitrarily created after looting through the whole world? How fucking convenient, eh?

              Suck it!

              I don’t particularly like China but it’s hilarious to think they’d be western puppet and do as they were told forever. Every other nation would do the same if roles were reversed.

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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              1 month ago

              That’s what tariffs are for. If a country is doing unfair pricing, force the pricing up to account for their subsidies. They can shoot themselves in the foot if they want.

              If we can prove they steal trade secrets, we should sue them and block business with them until they pay or prove innocence. But just blocking products isn’t the way, we need clear rules for when and how we do such things.

              • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                The country that makes ALL your shit has nothing to fear in a trade war. Unless you want to forgo ALL your shit?

                Who would have thought that sending all those jobs overseas to increase company profits and depress wages would have a downside?

              • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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                1 month ago

                Retaliatory tariffs are not really allowed by the WTO. They are really destructive for trade and just create scenarios where a third country is used to bypass the tariffs.

                China has been proven to steal technology for years, it’s just that the benefits of manufacturing there outweigh the costs on an individual company level. No one company can “sue China” as you suggest. They’re too big and can just ban that country from manufacturing anything there. So most companies put up with it.

                Your comment actually illuminates the need for US government action. Since no particular company is actually hurting China, they can’t be individually retaliated against by the Chinese government.

                • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 month ago

                  I’m not a fan of retaliatory tariffs, I’m a fan of corrective tariffs. The tariffs should be calculated from transparent facts, or at least good estimates. And they need to be consistent regardless of origin country. If we tariff Chinese EVs and drones due to being subsidized, we should also tariff AirBus airplanes for the same reason.

                  Tariffs are a problem when they target a country as a punitive measure, I think they can be effective when they correct unfairness in the market. I’m a fan of carbon tariffs, for example, where estimates of carbon emissions are used to calculate a tariff on an imported good so local products with higher regulatory expectations are competing on an even field. Maybe high income areas compete with low labor cost through automation and better QC, but they shouldn’t need to compete with subsidies.

      • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        China has a bunch of the world by the balls thanks to the world using Chinese manufacturing for everything from chips to medication. That alone is a national security problem. Sure, it maintains some stability due to economic ties, but the flip side is that we can only exert so much pressure on China before it will bite us in the ass, and we’re fucked if all-out war started and we got cut off.

          • fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works
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            1 month ago

            Honestly. This is why fair trade cert or taa compliant or just know trusted country is ok with me when I buy things.

            I just don’t want to be complict in known slavery. I don’t want to support oppressive regimes. Etc, etc, etc.

      • bastion@feddit.nl
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        1 month ago

        Without a foundation, you have no foundation.

        Effectively, China has been acquiring a monopoly on manufacturing, which is an absolute necessity for modern life. We have been acquiring the higher-paid, but less numerous and less critical industries.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          1 month ago

          Sure, but it doesn’t need to happen here. If we get into a WW3 situation, we need to be able to protect our supply lines, and that can happen with friendly countries. We’re unlikely to get into a situation where our navy is outmatched, so I don’t think it’s totally urgent to bring production back here.

          That said, we do have a lot of critical manufacturing capacity. Intel has chip fabs, we produce lots of oil, we build cars, etc. We import a lot more than we used to, but we could probably make it through a major war with only domestic production, provided it doesn’t drag on too long until we can reestablish supply lines.

          I’ll only get worried when China catches up in tech. That’s certainly happening faster than I’d like, but I don’t think China is ready to compete head to head on tech just yet. If they’re at parity, that’s when we need to worry about domestic production. Ideally we can improve diplomatic ties by then.

      • potatopotato@sh.itjust.works
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        1 month ago

        Not wrong, but the issue is complex. Drones are very obviously one of the bullets in any upcoming conflict. It’s not really about spying and phoning home, it’s that it would be insane to try to tell China “hey, don’t invade other countries mkay?” And then say “oh also we need ammo to stop you but we don’t have the ability to make brass cases or gunpowder anymore, can you send us some”.

        Now, while we “can”, to some extent, manufacture components and complete systems, the thing about a war is that it’s basically a wizard duel but with money hoses. You can’t win if the Chinese are producing slaughter bots for $500 ea and the US equivalent is $100,000 (literally). Congress is praying that this will light a fire under US and more friendly foreign manufacturing supply chains to invest more because they might have a chance of breaking into a lucrative market. That said, it probably just paves the way for a two tiered market where China makes their slaughter bots for $500 and the US makes them for $50,000 but all the civil use cases get caught in the cross fire for the short to mid term…so everyone still loses, just harder.

        • pop@lemmy.ml
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          1 month ago

          hey, don’t invade other countries mkay?

          Considering recent history, you’d better say that to US more, don’t you think? or is it that your country is free to invade other countries but others doing the same is where you start considering human rights?

          Talk about hypocrisy. fuckin hell, read a history book.

  • Fedizen@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Again like the tiktok ban: Rather than passing real privacy laws we’re passing racism laws and pretending this helps privacy and security.

    • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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      1 month ago

      The CCP might be all Chinese and the Chinese Populace might be +91% Han Chinese but that in no way makes laws which target a hostile foreign dictatorship equate to “racism”.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        the Chinese Populace might be +91% Han Chinese

        I’ll never understand how a country with 1.4B people gets labeled “homogenous” by race counters, but a continent with with 800M, like Europe, is able to recognize dozens of cultures and subcultures.

        Would you even guess that China has over 300 living languages inside its borders?

        • NIB@lemmy.world
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          Because not many europeans primarily identify as “european first”. This is slowly changing but for the most part, people identify by whatever european nation they inhabit. But i bet most chinese identify as “chinese first” instead of whatever region/city they are from.

          In fact, China likes to brag about how “advanced” they are, that they solved this “issue” centuries ago, while the EU is currently trying to “copy them”.

          TLDR : If you ask a chinese tourist “where are you from?”, they will answer “China”. If you ask a european the same, noone will say “Europe/EU”.

        • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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          1 month ago

          You are looking at it from the perspective of a westerner post springtime of nations. As I understand it a lot of Chinese people see it more like the Romans, wherein they may be different but they are all Chinese. Also China has been committing cultural genocide and assimilation against groups within their borders for millenia, this has resulted in what can best be described as a very broad cultural and ethnic identity.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            So you think the Chinese are just naturally genocidal? And that’s why the Yao and Zhuang and Bai and Mongolian people don’t count as distinct ethnic groups?

            Meanwhile, the Welsh, the English, the Irish, and the Scottish do count because… the English have been historically so peaceful and egalitarian?

            • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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              1 month ago

              When the fuck did I say that their naturally that way? Its a control tool, the Romans also used it to a degree. Its pretty hard to keep an empire as big as China going for severap Millenia without doing that type of shit.

              Also did I say that I didnt recognize the Yao, Zhuang, Bai, and Mongols as distinct ethno cultural groups? I was talking on my understanding of how quite a lot of Chinese folks see themselves, if you want my opinion on it then Id say the Han identity is probably split them into at least a dozen groups and its just cultural genocide and colonialism all the way down. But I refuse to recognize the concept of an American culture so im a bit biased on that front.

              And then finally I didnt know Irish, Scots, and Welsh thoughly identify with the English silly me. Seriously I will repeat myself, I was referring to the dominant groupsing in China not minority groups. But you do allow to make a solid point, who embrases and attemps to enforce the “British” identity the most is it the Scots, Irish, and Welsh or is it the colonialist bastards in the south of England? I am very aware of Englands tendency towards cultural genocide within Great Britain and Ireland, afterall half my ancestors fled to North America to escape the fucking Saxons.

              • yogurt@lemm.ee
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                1 month ago

                If you don’t get the historical or political reason why something is the way it is then it seems “natural” by default. China never had a several millennia empire unless you think Europe is also a several millennia empire. The modern concept of Han is the same thing you’re doing when you say “fucking Saxons”. The Saxons didn’t do anything, the imperial system and opposition to it is racialized. From the 1600s-1900s Han wasn’t the dominant group in China, the Qing dynasty had a Manchu identity, and they executed people for expressing Han culture. Opposition to oppression and corruption and European imperial influence was racialized as Han nationalism.

                CCP politics straddles an anti-colonial idea of Chinese identity where the diaspora of people shipped around European empires to build railroads or farm plantations are still Chinese, and then also a geographic identity that all those millennia of different systems whether Mongol or Manchu or Han or split up into 100 different states are all equally Chinese.

                • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 month ago

                  Given the fact that China keeps reuniting into a variably centralized series of states that claim continuity from eachother id say that is a several millenia old empire, warlord eras not withstanding. All im doing is applying the same rules a lot of folks including myself use for Rome, pre Roman Egypt, France, or most other empires.

                  As for ruling cultures, well whoopedy doo the Manchus had problem with the biggest culture that they ruled over, thats so fucking common for ruling cultures that it barely even registers in my mind as notable. Sure it went on for about 300 years but thats still a drop in the rather large bucket that is Chinese hostory. Hell id say its more notable when a ruling culture starts out trying to assimilate and hybridize with those they rule, the Normans come to mind on that one.

                  Frankly I dont care what the fucken CCP claims, empires and states spew a lot of shit from their mouths when the only thing that should be coming out is their own blood. I only care what the common people have to say not some weakling politicians or overworked bureaucrat have to say.

                  And then finally the problems my ancestors had was with the southern English aka the Saxons, I know who fucked over my ancestors and I will carry on this grudge from them until every Saxon aristocrat and oligarch are lashed to crosses.