- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
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He won’t have to look vet far. In the last Trump administration, Provigil was handed out like breath mints.
I fucking HATE these clickbait headlines. Read the dang article and look at the quotes:
“I’m going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to spend time as much time as they need — three or four years if they need it— to learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities,” he said during the broadcast. (emphasis added)
RFK is a total whackjob, but it’s pretty clear he’s talking about some kind of voluntary “farm therapy” (which probably isn’t demonstrably effective anyway) and not a concentration camp.
PLEASE we got enough bombastic language and clickbait over the Biden years. There are PLENTY of things wrong with the actual quote above without taking us into clickbait territory.
Let’s criticize him on the grounds of being scientific but proposing very un-scientific actions. Let’s criticize him for proposing ineffective solutions, but please, focus on his ACTUAL statement instead of trying to fluff it into some goddamn headline.
Although these wellness farms might seem like a worthwhile idea on paper, there are plenty of ways these kinds of systems could be rife with abuse. It’s also unclear how different they would really be from the rehabilitation facilities that already exist across the country, and RFK’s claims that most of the issues come down to not eating organic food also don’t seem to be based on hard science.
https://www.distractify.com/p/rfk-wellness-farms
Means well but it sounds here like they’ll be volunteering at a farm for 3-4 uears, wasting their time
Oh yeah… “volunteering.”
And for “as much time as they need.”
Doesn’t seem ominous at all from a guy with a brainworm in a government that’s being jizzed on by the whole for-profit-prison industry. I’m sure they’ll have no interest in these “wellness farms”.
Arbeit macht frei.
First thing that came to mind reading the headline
Voluntary, as in NYPD saying you’ll be arrested if you don’t voluntarily go into their overcrowded bedbug homeless shelter?
This is not as benign as you think. RFK already thinks vaccines annd prescribed meds are child abuse.
can we report this sort of thing here? downvoting has never worked.
Lemmy needs a few more things, like reporting and time sort etc
Time to add futurism.com to my block list. What a useless rag.
100% They are part of the death of journalism. Inaccurate, hyped headlines that disagree with the body of the article. Designed to get “engagement” and not to inform. Fuck them.
Assuming this is government funded, I’d be more than happy to spend a couple of years at such a place. I need to take a break from reality and not worry about bills for a bit.
Some additional context: RFK proposed these farms will be funded by sales tax on cannabis products. Whether you consider that government funded or not is up to you.
You clearly have not read the history of Nazi era labor camps. They had very nice sounding propaganda for Germans to believe too.
Don’t kid yourself. They mean forced labor camps.
I have read the history of Nazi era labor camps. I do not believe every outcome that occurred in Nazi Germany will occur here. Since neither Trump, nor RFK, is in charge yet, you and I can only conjecture about what they will do once they are in charge. I prefer to restrict my criticism to their stated plans instead of these hyperbolic statements, but you do you.
I guess under the same reasoning that this will be Nazi Germany, we will also be doing a land invasion of Mexico and/or Canada for more “living space”. If you don’t believe that to be true, then the best I can say is we will have a partial overlap with Nazi Germany. Assuming you do not believe there will be a land-invasion of our closest neighboring countries, can you explain what parts of Nazi Germany I can expect and what I cannot?
So far, I understand your reasoning to be that Trump and Co. have identical goals to Nazi Germany. I am curious how this meshes with Trump’s broad support of Israel, which would probably be in conflict with the antisemitism of Nazi Germany.
They’ve told us what they plan to do. Believe them.
Sorry, let me ask more directly. The aims of Trump are exactly the same as Hitler? If no, why are we talking about Nazi-era death camps?
The difference between you and I is that I am reading the actual words from these fellows (who I don’t like very much anyway) to try to determine their stated goals and you seem to just be saying “TRUMP = NAZI”.
We all benefit from having an accurate picture of the country next year. You seem to say it’s Nazi Germany. Is it, or is it not?
They said they plan to make large scale detention camps to hold and deport up to 18 to 20 million undocumented immigrants. This is exactly what the Nazis said they would do to their target groups as well. It was only after deporting such a large mass of people became logistically impossible that they resorted to mass death camps. That is, if you believe their Nuremberg testimony.
They said they plan to make large scale detention camps to hold and deport up to 18 to 20 million undocumented immigrants.
The original thread was talking about users of Adderall and other prescription drugs. Are you saying that the plan will be to send Adderall / prescription drug users and undocumented immigrants to the same labor camps?
I’m saying they’re expanding the list of who they wish to detain. Just like the Nazis did.
I don’t believe your questions are asked in good faith.
I get what you’re saying, but would people in germany in 1932 have been able to predict what was going to happen in between 1934-9?
What I am saying is that people are extrapolating that Trump will have death camps soon because that’s what Nazi Germany did. Since Trump breaks with Nazi Germany in many ways (such as he advocates for friendly relations with the Jewish state, Israel), we can say as a matter of fact that he has policy differences from Nazi Germany.
If Trump’s behavior differs from Nazi Germany, then it does not follow that he will establish death camps.
I am becoming increasingly frustrated with the Nazi analogy with Trump. I will agree that he shows some authoritarian tendencies, but philosophically they have some critical differences:
“The stronger must dominate and not blend with the weaker, thus sacrificing his own greatness.”
Adolf Hitler
“America is a land of opportunity, not a place where divisions are created based on race, religion, or background.”
Donald Trump
“Germany will either be a world power or will not be at all.”
Adolf Hitler
“Great nations do not fight endless wars.”
Donald Trump
Those are quotes directly from the two of them and I would say they differ very much in their views of Democracy and the role of warfare in the modern world.
Trump is such an absolute disaster that you can easily find things to criticize him on without the flawed equivocation to one of the worst dictators of the 20th century:
- Multiple Bankruptcies
- Business Practices: (Trump University was sued for fraud and settled for $25 million in 2016 without admitting wrongdoing)
- Tax Avoidance
- Impeachments
- Election Misinformation
- Environmental Rollbacks (such as withdrawing from the Paris Accord)
Stating the above is far more factual and accurate than a crude equivocation to Nazi Germany. Given the above, I can say it’s pretty likely we can expect more of the same in his next presidential tour, such as further environmental rollbacks. Despite my distaste for the man, I cannot envision him starting death camps and exterminating people, or starting land invasions to expand the US, which is what Nazi Germany would do.
All of the above is quite a bit longer than “TRUMP = NAZI”, but I believe speaking in detail about the specific mistakes Trump made (or will make) lets us have a more productive conversation about how to deal with them and may also enable us to contrast his approach to whomever seeks election in the US in 2028.
We’ve had enough pointless name calling in the US in the past couple of years. Let’s elevate the discussion and hopefully we will be a better nation in the wake of Trump’s reign.
Stop fucking sane washing him. “If they want to” is a dubious statement coming from anyone in this authoritarian administration.
The fact that he brings up “reparenting”, it seems fairly obvious that this is going to be done by authority of the state. He’s talking about taking people’s kids away from them if they medicate their children as recommended by their doctors.
Stop fucking sane washing him
You’ll notice I called him a “total whackjob”. I do not say he is sane. However, I wish to criticize what he ACTUALLY said instead of some bombastic caricature of his plan. In no way do I support or endorse RFK, but let’s be accurate with our criticism.
Focus on the topic at hand. Making up all these statements will just make people roll their eyes when or if it actually happens. Don’t be the boy who cried wolf.
RFK endorses reparenting neurodivergent kids, and you want me to wait until it “actually happens”. Absolutely not!
I have a neurodivergent kid and haven’t heard anything about this. Do you have any sources?
Can you link a source for this?
Very well put. I have ‘outrage fatigue’ from the past couple of years. Since RFK and Trump have so many dubious plans and statements, can’t we find enough problems with what they have ACTUALLY said instead of having to catastrophize about the subtext of their words?
Who decides if they need it ?
According to the RFK quote above, the person themselves. According to a lot of the posters in this thread: Republican Death Squads.
Sure, totally voluntary. With barbed wire, guards, prison gangs, and court orders. Just like the reform schools for teenagers.
You should go write for futurism.com.
This is exactly how the marketing for reform schools looks. They show pictures of happy kids doing fun things. And in reality they just torture kids into obedience.
I got into great shape mentally and physically with a limited diet and constant farm chores. Of course, I was alone and not surrounded by brain worms piloting human hosts so maybe that was what worked.
Reading the actual quote makes it sound a lot WORSE.
Less like “farm therapy” and more like:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_to_the_Countryside_Movement
I actually like the idea, if they fund it.
I could go away for a year no questions asked.Assuming it is implemented as RFK says, I agree. I can see some people choosing to take some time on a farm to try to address their drug addictions.
Since neither Trump (nor RFK) have a track record of delivering, I will believe it when I see it. If people in the USA wrestling with drug addiction had a choice to work at a wellness farm it seems like a positive development to me. Since Team Trump is big on words and short on action, I won’t give them the benefit of the doubt here. I suspect it’s just another entry in the long list of stuff they talk about and then don’t actually do.
from the description it sounds like public healthcare, rehab. yea, it sounds good
So they’re just already saying the “camps” part out loud, eh? I guess when you have Hitler’s playbook, you can move faster than Hitler did.
This is part of some rural grift facilities which probably started with “trouble teens”. In recent years I’ve seen reports of these “farms” for “distressed” women. It’s usually a place with Ranch in the name. Example: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/11/18/the-christian-maternity-ranch-in-texas-is-a-disaster-in-the-making/
Permaculture farms, for example, are already well known for relying on abusive work conditions. See Joel Salatin:
https://medium.com/permaculture-3-0/fall-of-a-hero-f9ac80a08c0c
Are these the same people that abduct teens at night and bring them to these camps where they die of dehydration?
Those are more like wilderness survival training, except nobody in charge has any wilderness survival training of their own.
He mentioned SSRIs in the article. Now I’m imagining a bunch of PTSD infantry combat vets laughing their ass off at the instructor.
Some sort of camp to help ADHD folks work on their concentration?
I imagine a terrible, awful future Forest Gump remake.
“They had these camps that helped folks with their concentration or something like that. They said I was a shine-ning example, so I got to meet the president of the United States, again.”
“They tell me this guy is the best example. Got treated, got rich in shrimp. What a guy! Our camps are great, the best camps in all the world.”
Camera pans to Trump shaking hands with Kim Jong Un.
“In Korea, everybody got these pic-tures of their leader on the wall. We got those in Alabama too.”
Laughed too hard at this. It’s a Focus Group!!!
call it a focus village or soemthing
Just sounds like torture camps people voluntarily go to. Why would they remain voluntary? These people think public facilities that give out small doses to prevent people from dying from withdrawal and needle dispenseries to prevent STIs are immoral, so we all know it’s torture. This is obvious whether you read the article or not for all of the nuance trolls.
Is he not aware that the fascist pumpkin he will be working for pops those like breath mints?? Please do send that rapist con man to a labor camp.
Yes I am sure not being hypocrites is high on their list of concerns
Internal consistency was never their strong point.
Being Human was never their strong point. :)
The death cultists: It only counts if you have a prescription.
what the hell. staying in Canada.
And a tax on cannabis sales would fund these farms, he proposed.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but… is he really suggesting a federal tax on a federally illegal substance?
You hope he is just being clever and indirectly talking about legalizing cannabis, but you know that in reality he is just so incompetent that he has no idea what he is talking about.
but you know that in reality he is just so incompetent that he has no idea what he is talking about.
The reality is he’s very well educated and an overall intelligent person. His views are pure malice, not stupidity. Don’t be a dunce and underestimate him
He may be well educated, but he’s dumb as fuck.
Dude thinks the guy who stares at eclipses and changes hurricanes with a sharpie is smart lmfao. Wow
To be fair, they’re not talking about Trump, but RFK Jr.
They think the guy who straps a whale head to the top of his car and drives home with it is smart.
He also thought COVID was engineered to not hurt Asians and only Ashkenazi Jews. I’m not sure what kind of education these rich brats get but it definitely doesn’t make them smart.
Well, yeah? Tax stamps have pretty much always been required, and yes, on illegal weed.
https://norml.org/laws/tax-stamps/
https://taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/why-do-states-tax-illegal-drugs
If it makes money, yes.
Correct me if I’m wrong but are you pretending you don’t know the war on drugs to be utter bullshit that’s damaging society?
The war on drugs is bullshit, but the fact is that the US government still considers it a schedule 1 drug. My point is that they shouldn’t be able to tax it while still pretending that it should be illegal.
Well no the hypocrisy shouldn’t exist, that I agree with.
But I’d rather have taxation from cannabis while enduring the annoying hypocrisy rather than not have taxed cannabis and still listen to the hypocrisy.
The legal situation in the US is kinda weird. You can go to a legal shop to buy legal weed and when you walk out a federal agent might arrest you.
you have to ask yourself what is the actual goal of the incoming administration.
once you understand that, everything else will make sense.
Fuck that.
I strongly dislike how the argument hinges on the very movable goalpost of “illegal” drugs. It has this awful moralizing “protect the kids while we destroy privacy”, vibe to it.
At first I though this would require an end-run on HIPAA, but all they really need to do is re-schedule a bunch of therapeutic drugs. Or ignore the FDA entirely and just enforce a ban by edict (somehow) through a different agency. I don’t think we’ve ever seen federal agencies openly disagree like that before, but I think it’s possible. Also: big pharma may have something to say about all this.
Like a lot of the nonsense coming from this cabinet, it’ll test the crap out of state’s rights.
Big pharma will love it. All the drugs they made with expired patents are now illegal. Good thing they’ve got a very, very, very similar drug that meets all the necessary criteria, all lined up and ready to replace it (with a brand new patent, of course).
There has been some controversy about AstraZeneca’s behaviour in creating, patenting, and marketing the drug. Esomeprazole’s successful predecessor, omeprazole, is a mixture of two mirror-imaged molecules (esomeprazole which is the S-enantiomer, and R-omeprazole); critics said the company was trying to “evergreen” its omeprazole patent by patenting the pure esomeprazole and aggressively marketing to doctors that it is more effective than the mixture.[50]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esomeprazole
While the impact of CFCs from inhalers on the ozone layer had been minuscule (dwarfed by industrial processes using CFCs), the FDA in its interpretation of the Montreal Protocol mandated the switch in propellants.[17] Patients expressed concern about the high price of the HFA inhalers as there were initially no generic versions, whereas generic CFC inhalers had been available.[18]
Why would they need to do an end run around on the FDA? its been misclassifying drugs as schedule one for almost 60y now.
I think this is how they plan on making up for immigrant labor.
But lol if you want systemic food shortages this is a great way to go. Farm labor isn’t easy, it can’t be carried out by someone who is addicted enough to the point that they need this farm to get better. Farm labor needs to be reliant and self-directed, and drug addicts are not reliable and can barely direct their lives.
People on depression or adhd meds are not necessarily drug addicts. I can’t believe we have such incompetent people in charge now.
The plan to make up for immigrant labor is prison labor. Tank the economy, further criminalize homelessness. Wouldn’t be shocked if debters prisons make a big comeback.
Seems the country is being run by lunatics, not sure how America is going to survive this. There’s no such thing as a planned and controlled economic collapse, wonder what happens if another country pounces on America while it’s trying to recover. All of this seems like a bad idea for national security too. What a mess.
We’re not going the survive it…The dumb fuck poor morons in the cousin fucking parts of the country seem miss that the rich want to remove all roadblocks to completely taking literally everything we collectively worked for as a nation. It’s rich taking everything from the poor, and the ignorant racists are too excited to be racist they miss they’re being FUCKED too.
“I’m going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to spend time as much time as they need — three or four years if they need it — to learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities,” he said during the broadcast.
Isn’t it neat how he mixes in prescribed medical treatments? Neato.
Uh yeah, no.
I once thought it might be an idea to try and back off from 100mg sertraline to 50mg sertraline and on day two I wanted to strangle people. You can take my SSRIs from my cold dead hands.
“Have you tried going outside and snapping out of it?”
-RFK Jr., probably
So school shootings are a mental health problem, so he wants to do the opposite of help. Goddamn, make these people make sense.
“Have you tried going outside and snapping out of it?”
He should let the brain worm get some sunlight.
Yeah, I’m on 300mg sertraline daily, and I sometimes have trouble getting my prescription filled (understandable, it’s a way bigger dose than usual)
But if I’m not on it, the suicidal thoughts usually start on day 3
So if they were to take my SSRIs, I would quickly be killed by my own cold, dead hands
I’m going to try and write on my brain to turn those thoughts entirely on the people who decided I shouldn’t get my meds anymore.
How are you going to kill yourself with your own cold dead hands? That implies you’re already dead. I guess you could chop them off and strangely yourself with them. That’d be pretty gruesome, but you do you I guess.
New level of “the stranger” achieved. Your own severed dead hand.
Yeah, getting on and off medications is no easy task sometimes. And we already have mental health facilities you can go to for med adjustments. It’s just not free.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. On my current dose, I’m pretty good. Less? I very quickly go back to the state that brought me to where I needed to get on this medication. I am much better off staying on this dose until the end of my days, and frankly, so is everyone who has to interact with me.
That said, “not being free” made it so that I couldn’t stay on meds when I was in my twenties. The several other obstacles I dealt with over the decades mostly had to do with insurance that I had.
That’s fair, if you need the meds, you need the meds.
He’s a big believer in the whole “keeping people on drugs isn’t the fix” kind of thinking. It’s short-sighted and ignorant of the fact that a lot of people on them have a net benefit to function in society.
What he is proposing is something far more stupid akin to “Well look at me. I’ve never needed these drugs, and I’m totally fine. WTF, people?”
If you want a country that is doing the proper work to stop jumping to long-term prescriptions as problem solvers, I’m all for that. DO NOT confuse that with these dumb shit he’s suggesting though.
He’s an ex drug addict.
Yeah, you want to start with making it so I can live a full life without Adderall? Awesome, I’m all for it, start by building a robust and accessible public transportation network that allows for intercity and intracity transportation conveniently at all times of day, because trust me you do not want be driving unmedicated. Then you’re gonna need to solve the unable to maintain employment without meds problem. And even if you do all that I’ll fight you taking my meds tooth and nail because I feel seriously disabled without them and would much rather go without hearing aids than without adderall.
“Well look at me. I’ve never needed these drugs [He does], and I’m totally fine [He’s not]. WTF, people?”
He THINKS he’s fine because he lives in a bubble with other people who are willing to accept and normalize his unmedicated issues at great personal cost. And now, instead of being kicked to the roadside or reckoning with the idea of “maybe I’m the asshole here”, he plans to make the whole US into his safe space so he doesn’t have to be confronted with an idea outside his sphere.
Yes, but he THINKS he is.
What he is proposing is something far more stupid akin to “Well look at me. I’ve never needed these drugs, and I’m totally fine. WTF, people?”
Except he looks like a reanimated corpse and sounds like a frog that died on a log in a bog.
I agree with the principal sentiment. Except for schizophrenia and other illnesses involving acute psychosis, drugs shouldnt be the permanent solution.
But this requires access to proper psychotherapy, which needs to be part of a consistent concept of slowly reducing the drugs as the condition gets better.
Also this requires a society, where people have enough agency to remove the causes of psychological distress from their life. People getting anxieties is perfectly normal, if they are in constant fear to not be able to pay their bills. People getting depressed is perfectly normal, if they are expected to work a dead end job for the rest of their lifes, etc.
I see none of that coming from the direction of any politician.
EDIT: Wow. People get offended by the idea not to pump people full of drugs for the rest of their lifes, when therapy is a viable alternative. Seriously why do you want people to suffer instead of providing proper healthcare including proper access to therapy and creating life conditions that aren’t designed to make people sick? I never thought this to be controversial.
Therapy is great. For some of us it’s necessary but not sufficient. If a medication can help me, it should be my right to decide if I want it as a permanent part of my treatment plan for as long as it helps.
If someone has a liver, heart, or kidney problem, and need drugs to fix a deficiency - no problem.
But if it’s the brain you suggest not using drugs?
“Hey, person with a heart arrhythmia. Just get over it!”
Again nowhere did i say that. The precondition is always that therapy is available and working. But therapy is expensive and requires individual therapists. Making and selling psychiatric drugs can be done as an efficient business. And the companies doing so are such great benevolent entities that they have paid record sums in compensations for victims of them pushing the drugs. This includes often families where the drugs lead to psychosis, suicide, homicide, adverse health problems…
The very fact that psychiatric drugs can be advertised on TV in the US is complete madness. But i guess if you are a dealer or addict, nuance is easy to ignore.
Ah, but you make an exception for one of the most harmful kinds of perscription drugs that comes with severe side effects often far worse than the symptoms they’re meant to treat. It’s different because psychotic people scaaaaryyy I suppose?
It is different because there is no alternative to reliably prevent psychosis afaik.
Why the hell do you get offended by the idea to minimize use of psychatric drugs where possible and to continue use where necessary?
There’s no alternative to reliably treat many other psychiatric issues. And antipsychotics are often not worth the extremely debilitating side effects.
No, not just for “schizophrenia and other illnesses involving acute psychosis”.
My brain literally does not properly process dopamine. Adderall, Ritalin, Strattera, etc help this. No matter how much my stress in life is reduced, I still need meds like these to function properly.
Yeah, without psychiatric grade stimulants I simply cannot function properly. Not just in a “industrialized society” way, but also in a “cooking, cleaning, regulating my emotions, regulating my behavior…” way. Without these meds I would need disability support, with them I’m able to support my household
You just agree because it comes from a maga nutjobs mouth.
“You’re just depressed because life sucks, get over it”
I really wonder why you get offended by “We should try to minimize the use of psychatric drugs, where therapy is a viable alternative”?
Do you prefer taking drugs with potentially severe side effects for the rest of your life? Do you want people to die, because some life event outside their control prevents them from accessing drugs like SSRIs or Benzodiazepines that can be deadly if quit cold turkey?
Nothing of that has to do with maga nutjobs. On the contrary it should be basic human decency to find and provide the least harmful treatment.
I really wonder why you get offended by “We should try to minimize the use of psychatric drugs, where therapy is a viable alternative”?
What you said here wouldn’t ruffle nearly as many feathers, because IMHO in your other post you buried the lede.
It’s definitely good to say that we need better access to therapy, and to improve societal conditions, since many people would be healthier with those instead of drugs. We’d all benefit!
Then there’s proposals by hardcore wingnuts like RFK that…are unreasonable to the point of doing outright harm. You just got confused for the latter, I guess. I wasn’t sure about your first comment, either.
Also, “get reparented” is some very sinister cult programming (ie brain washing) language…
Also extremely “these people should not be treated as having the legal autonomy of adults” vibes
I sure hope there will be people there that know what they’re doing. Benzo withdrawal is no joke and can lead to seizures.
It’s all the same when you believe in conspiracy theories, are not a Dr., and had a brain worm die in your head.
Also, how in the hell do we not have at least a medical degree as the very 1st requirement for a position that controls/shapes medical care for the country?!
… to spend time as much time as they need — three or four years if they need it — to learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities …
Is this paid time/leave? Who does he envision paying for his “wellness farms”? Or is this him envisioning everyone creating some commune farm where everyone is eating mushrooms and killing bears?
does that include his new bosses?
gonna need at least four years to get them all cleaned up and ‘reconnected with communities’.
and we better lock 'em all up just to make sure we don’t miss a straggler or two.
If he comes for my antidepressants he can haul me off but he can’t make me cooperate.
It’s going to be like those troubled teenager reform schools. They will torture non compliance.
BY THEIR OWN CHOICE
“if they want to”
