In “who left their bag here”'s case, the gender of the person is not known because their identity isn’t known, so it doesn’t feel strange to use (for us old farts). It can take some effort to retrain your brain to use “they” when it’s a single person whose identity is known (speaking from experience as a Gen Xer).
Or the person might just be a transphobic asshole. But I like to think that most just need to educate themselves on using pronouns correctly.
Yeah it can take a while to get used to, especially if you knew the person before they changed their pronouns. But the point is it isnt incompatible with our language at all. I think the last panel would be better if it showed the (transphobic) guy and another person and he says “this activist said the craziest thing to me today” and then the second person says “oh yeah, what’d THEY say” because then the ‘they’ pronoun would be directly referring to the person who wanted to be called ‘they’ in the first place.
Oh yeah it took me a while to default to ‘they’ instead of ‘he/she’ lol
Sometimes I still mess up and assume, and sometimes I say ‘they’ when I don’t mean to also. Brains are weird.deleted by creator
Someone correct me, but “you” was originally plural. The correct way to address a singular person is “thou”.
Also singular they is older than singular you. So any idiots who complain that “they” should only be plural should only be using thou/thee for second person singular.
I had heard that “you” was originally “thou”, and the plural was “thee”. But people used a character called “thorn” to write the “th” in “thou”, and it ended up looking like this: þou. But eventually the þ got substituted with “y”, due to some printing press shenanigans. So, “you” was singular and “ye” was plural.
The wikipedia on “you” didn’t completely answer the question, either.
pou
Other commenters have already covered the you/thou thing, so to cover the printing press bit: that did happen, but with a different word. “Ye” as in “Ye Olde Village Inn” is the one. The “ye” here is “the”, and it was pronounced as “the” too. It would have been spelled “þe” before, and in blackletter style (𝔱𝔥𝔦𝔰 𝔰𝔱𝔶𝔩𝔢 𝔬𝔣 𝔩𝔢𝔱𝔱𝔢𝔯𝔦𝔫𝔤), “y” and “þ” looked awfully similar. If your press came from a country that didn’t use the thorn - and many presses in Europe did - and therefore didn’t have that character available, then you’d just use the y since they were close enough anyway
A similar thing happened with the letter yogh (ȝ) in Scotland. It wasn’t in most presses, but it looks close enough to a z, so just use a z, and now the name “Menzies” is spelled that way despite being pronounced “ming-iss”
That this “ye” is spelled the same way as the second person plural subject pronoun “ye” is a total coincidence
Yesn’t. Actually no.
The singular was thou for subject and thee for object and the plural was ye/you. In formal speech the plural was used and the subject pronoun was replaced by the object but I can’t tell you in which order.
The þ-thing didn’t effect the pronoun but some surnames and the article. I think some pubs have names like “ye old”. They used to be “þe(=the) old” and have nothing to do with þe old pronoun, even tho it is written the same.
God rest ye merry gentleman is the “ye” example I like to think of.
Man Christmas dinner is gonna rock this year. Just like my mom will play dumb and look confused that I used “they” as a singular, I’m going to play dumb and look confused when she says “you”. I see no downsides.
Thou was singular subject and thee was singular object.
https://activeenglishcee.blogspot.com/2020/10/thou-thee-thy-thine-ye-meanings-usage.html
Thou are correct.
*art
Okay, if you say so.
Art are correct.
It was a funny comment, but I wouldn’t call it art.
*are
Yeah. And
Y'allalso used to be plural. Now it can be singular and we useAll Y'allto clarify when we need people to know we mean plural. Language is bonkers.
Always liked this one:
But this one is good too…
Not complaining or calling it out but I’ve seen the words in the 2nd applied to sooo many different comics. I think that’s actually kind of great that it’s so flexible 😆
I think it’s originally from Red vs Blue
I remember as a kid the teachers were desperately trying to make “he or she” a thing and told us the singular “they” would never be acceptable.
I’m personally glad that movement failed.
looking back, some of my educators were monumentally stupid
OVERSHARING TIME
My body doesn’t burp; when I drink something carbonated I have to physically gag myself with something to get the air out. When I was a kid I didn’t know this and would get pain in my stomach and didn’t understand why.
Coke with my lunch two days in a row resulted in trips to my home room teacher to ask to see the nurse, or go home. My home room teacher crossed her arms and said, “this is the second day in a row you’ve done this to us,” and lectured me about trying to get out of class. I had no way of proving that I was actually in pain. I was angry and scared and couldn’t do anything about it. Do not give me the keys to the time machine or there will be violence.
I had this exact same problem growing up. When I started drinking excessive amounts of beer the pressure became enough to break through, and I finally started burping. That somehow fixed my body completely, and I’ve been able to burp normally ever since, but my God I’ll never forget the pain of being unable to burp. Literally the worst pain of my life
I’m glad you can belch now. 🍻
Hey I remember a Hank Green video about this. I suffer from time to time with not being able to burp either, so I tried to remember this. Basically, botox injections are found to help for not burping, I think a specific variety, where a muscle is not working right. I think it’s more in the testing phase, but maybe, you too could burp someday!
naw bro I get chopsticks on amazon
I had a math teacher that was there to coach football… instead of the normal method for balancing equations and such he’d insist you use his wonky play call diagrams.
Which made all the other algebra and trig teachers have re-teach kids coming out of his last class.
Dude was a stereotypical jock that was going to give one of his athletes a free pass for stuffing a friend of mine into a locker. At least until i stuffed the tight end in his locker, instead.
So. How about this. We swap the keys and go all strangers on a train?
You sound fun to hang out with. I’m in.
Are you a horse ?
On the internet nobody knows you are a horse.
I learned English at school and the first time I encountered singular they was when my teacher explained it to us. Sometimes non native speakers are less prescriptive than native speakers
Teachers didn’t know vapid influencers would exist.
When I started interacting with a non-binary person more often, the only reflexive pronoun that came to mind was ‘themselves.’ As in, “They bought themselves a pair of socks for their birthday.” It felt a bit awkward since I couldn’t shake the plural association in my head, but I still used it to be respectful.
Then I remembered that the word ‘themself’ exists and I felt stupid.
That’s something I wonder about as a non native speaker: it’s singular they but verbs are still plural (they are, not *they is, they come
s). Maybe this will change some day, maybe not. Singular s might die out anyway or maybe because of singular they.
Roses are red Violets are blue The singular “they” Pre-dates singular “you”
Youse guys should use the plural you
By chance I actually do come from an area that uses it! Although it’s more of a “yiz” here
Thou shalt use proper pronouns and not be lazy recycling plural pronouns in the singular. What next, are thou planing to use a singular “we” like inbred royalty?
The singular “they” Pre-dates singular “you”
The same way rights were ore-dated by no rights?
‘older’ is not always ‘better’. Make your point, but don’t hinge it on a false comparison.
The point isn’t to say that the singular they is somehow better than the singular you, it’s to point out that it is not a modern invention. People that dislike usage of the singular they often argue that it is an unnatural change being forced upon the language, when in fact it has been in use for so long that it was used by Shakespeare
Calling people what they ask to be called just doesn’t have to be this difficult.
And yes, his royal lordship Starn, the majestic, that goes for you, too. It’s fine. We’re cool with your chosen name. And I admit, the opera cape absolutely works for you.
And I don’t need to know what genitalia most other people are rocking. That’s none of my business, unless we’re really into each-other, in a very intimate way.
It takes all my willpower not to be get pretty inappropriate every time a government form asks my birth sex:
“Oh! We just met at this office of motor vehicles…I didn’t know you felt that way about me! This is so much to process. I admit there’s a mutual attraction. Of course I feel it too. I’m delighted that you had a special form made up to ask! I’m flattered! Want to grab dinner, and see where this goes?”
Calling people what they ask to be called just doesn’t have to be this difficult.
We in fact do it all the time. It’s just people have gotten used to using names. But it’s not like you were born with a Dave chromosome. Your parents decided to call you Dave, so in the end it’s also just a made up name/sound.
Calling people what they ask to be called just doesn’t have to be this difficult.
Yeah, I don’t really understand why people get so upset about Drag specifically, like it’s not that hard once you figure it out.
If you’re introducing yourself to me, I only need your name.
So you’re going to refer to John by John’s name exclusively? Sounds a bit awkward, but okay.
I’m tired of calling John, John, every time I refer to Join, but I wasn’t paying attention to John’s pronouns, so now I’m stuck until I have a chance to ask John, when I next see John.
Source: I’ve done this, actually. I hope I was more subtle.
Or you could just use “they.” Convenient!
Remember when we just conversed like human beings and didn’t have all this convoluted nonsense about worrying over pronouns?
If the person is called John, 99.9% of the time, you know what the pronouns would be, because not everyone is terminally online.
because not everyone is terminally online.
LGBT people exist irl too, you’d be surprised how many there are once you get to know them. People you never would’ve thought were lgbt you can now recognize. I’m from Florida which is pretty conservative and I know 5+ trans people (including non-binary).
They’re pretty cool too! I have a trans guy friend who will absolutely LOVE to talk about how cars work and fishing spots given the chance. He taught me how to change the oil on my car. I’m hoping to get him a blahaj for Christmas :)
The “terminally online” aspect is the obsession with pronouns, which doesn’t seem to exist in reality.
I know quite a few LGBT people and even work with someone who is trans. None of them have ever once mentioned anything about pronouns. Because we just conversed like normal people.
I get irked when someone says “he or she,” especially repeatedly, because the singular “they” is so much easier to hear and read.
me copy pasting a line of code in 20 different places just to go back and make a function for it
Dear native English speakers, would you mind inventing a new word either for gender-neutral third-person singular pronoun, or one for what “they” mean to foreign English speakers since you are so insisted in differing its meaning from the text books you shipped us decades ago?
English is so inconsistent at this point. Only the third-person pronouns have gender in singular form, the plural form has no gender and now you are telling us the gender-less form can be singular now? How confusing!
English is widespread partly because it has simple alphabet and relatively easy grammar. I don’t mind someone being in LGBT+ group at all, but could you please don’t mess with the language?
English is so inconsistent at this point.
At this point? At this very point, specifically due to the historically valid usage of one gender neutral pronoun? Now is the time that it’s finally become an inconsistent language? Singular “they” is the thing that has pushed English over the edge from logical and sensical to arbitrary and confusing? Of all the foibles and quirks, this is the one that is simply unforgivable and must be changed?
I didn’t say anything you said.
I think a more sensible way to include LGBT+ group is to just make “she/her” obsolete. We are all “he/him”, and we are “they/them” when in a group. Way cleaner than this, excuse me, shit that we foreign English speakers have to adjust to for every few years.
Mate, english is my second language too and this is not that confusing.
Singular they/them has been here for hundreds of years and using it as a gender neutral alternative to she/her and he/him isnt shit, its part of the english language.
We agree. We make he/him obsolete and we’re all she/her, as there are more female people on the planet, so less people have to adapt
“he/him” probably isn’t he/him in their non-gendered language. In some languages there’s no he or she, there’s only a pronoun that means “that person”
Armenian, Persian, Tagalog, Finnish, Georgian, Turkish, Swahili &c
As the comic shows, “they” (“their,” in this case) was already used as a singular when the gender was unknown. The only change is it’s now also used if the person’s gender is known and isn’t “he” or “she.”
Naw.
Don’t blame native speakers that your textbook is outdated
In Finnish language there are no gender specific pronouns only gender neutral one hän/hänen.
They/them still sounds weird to use even if I know it can be used to refer single person. When talking or writing fast I’ll still often accidentally default to using he/him even for females which I then have to correct.
In my language everything little word is gendered so everything you talk about is bound by it. It’s extremely confusing thinking or understanding how to describe something in terms “non-gendered”.
I really am supportive of all the changes needed in the world, but the use of “they” is very confusing in a singular form for people who don’t have it as first language and concepts and everything was learned by mapping stuff to other language, so please invent some word for it and go with it. It’s already strange and always difficult understanding the usage of “you” in singular vs plural and formal or not speech.
I really wish my language also had gender neutral pronouns, it just sound so much simpler and better.
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What is “JK” referencing to?
Rowling
ty
These people don’t care if it’s grammatically correct. They just don’t like trans people.
Ok, hear me out, super supportive, but I had an issue when a friend’s husband wanted me to use “their.”
What issue? I fail to see how that impacts you negatively in any way.
No no, hear me out.
So you’re not, in fact, “super supportive” at all then, are you, and are not, in fact, worth hearing out… 🙄
That comment did not imply any of this in the least
Don’t use it then.
The only time you would ever need to use someone’s pronouns is when they’re not part of the conversation anyway.
I couldn’t care less what people refer to me as if I’m not there.
“I was with Dan the other day. They forgot their keys at home. They said they had to go back to get them.”
Literally not hard at all?
The only time you would ever need to use someone’s pronouns is when they’re not part of the conversation anyway.
no? it would be weird to use in a one-on-one conversation, true. but it is fairly common to use the third person pronoun of someone during a group conversation, even while they are there
I don’t do this, and growing up was taught that it was rude to refer to someone by anything other than their name in a group conversation.
