• InevitableSwing [none/use name]@hexbear.netOP
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      3 months ago

      In the lib brain - American civil religion is the most important thing in the universe and voting is a sacred covenant. The typical r/politics redditor the night of election day will unironically say…

      Look, if people had turned out - Biden would have won and our democracy would have saved. But they didn’t so we fucking get Trump again.

      I’ll want to say - I dunno - isn’t the super-low turnout Biden’s fault?

      • ReadFanon [any, any]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        It’s wild how there’s so much entitlement inherent to that attitude:

        Um Sweaty, don’t you realise that you’re morally obligated to vote or else you will get my disapproval?

        Um Sweaty, don’t you realise that you’re morally obligated to vote for Our Guy™ or else you will get my disapproval?

        …gosh, why are all these people so out of touch??

        There’s a non-insignificant chance that if they managed to scold everyone into voting that people might actually vote Trump in protest and they’d need to reckon with that instead of, you know, chastising people even more. I don’t think it would be likely enough to happen but the fact is that it’s not completely off the cards. It’s more likely that you’d see a swing towards third party candidates and spoilt votes that they’d get infuriated over people “ruining democracy” by not adhering to the demands that these voters play by their arbitrary rules and they’d lament how the Dems “could have” won that swing state if only that 0.5% of spoilt votes had actually gone to Biden.

        In a broader sense this is why countries like Israel play with shorter sentences for refusing conscription and why there’s a lot of leniency built into how long you are imprisoned for and why imprisoning conscientious objectors for short-ish periods serves a structural function that supports the state; if you jail conscientious objectors for like 10+ years then you turn those very disaffected non-participants mostly into bitterly disaffected recruits who then start resorting to becoming Chelsea Manning figures or they start a culture of the ol’ classic Vietnam War fragging of commanding officers (tyfys to those brave Vietnam War veterans unironically btw) , either of which is far more disruptive than having the government put a tiny percentage of resistors into a temporary time-out.

        (Not shitting on any conscientious objectors here tho. I have nothing but love and support for them and I support their committment and personal sacrifices they make on ethical and political grounds. Just speaking about how the government structures and mitigates the threat these people are capable of posing.)

        In a similar sense, if you’re “conscripting” people into being compelled to vote then you risk blowback from that. And I’m not talking like countries that have “compulsory” voting where the government sends you stern letters or they make you pay small fines for not voting here.

      • AbbysMuscles [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        abortion is on the ballot in many states

        Who should I vote for if I want to protect women’s bodily autonomy? The party that is limiting it, or the party that shrugged and said they won’t do anything to protect it?

        • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          3 months ago

          Yeah this is where I’m at. Why exactly is abortion on the ballot during Biden’s term? Shouldn’t we blame this problem on him then? Biden has very clear steps he could take to protect abortion. He could put clinics on federal land, or pack the supreme court with 10 pro-choice judges. He could do anything other than absolutely nothing.

          It’s also not on the ballot in my state of Texas.

          • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            3 months ago

            It’s also not on the ballot in my state of Texas.

            Until Texas starts doing ballot initiatives (don’t hold your breath) I won’t be stepping into a voting booth. Can’t even do fucking write-ins in this backwards-ass state.

      • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        ROE V WADE HAS ALREADY BEEN OVERTURNED YOU NUMBSKULL AND IT WAS OVERTURNED UNDER BIDEN YOU FUCKING DOOFUS.
        Dems have shown they do not give a shit about abortion rights, they didn’t enshrine Roe so they could beat you over the head with it.

        And hey FUCK YOU FOR DOWNPLAYING GENOCIDE. “Uhhh yeah what is happening is Gaza is totally horrible or important or whatever, but have you considered some bad things might happen to meeeeee?”
        There’s a line in the sand and the line is genocide. Next you will say “trump is worse” IM NOT VOTING FOR TRUMP. This whole “uhhhh the gop is worse” has now led you to support genocide instead of demanding the lowest of fucking bars be upheld.

        You suck. You’re an idiot. You are lost in your ignorance like a pig wandering in a mud wallow. Your mind is like a bramble patch, full of thorns and briars to impede any thought that might enter. Your ears are like a hollow log, unable to comprehend the words and sound from without. Your soul is like a broken bone, unable to feel the pain of enlightenment or to walk a path of righteousness. Like a fly buzzing around a dead carcass, you flit between folly and foolishness, lacking the knowledge and discernment to move forward. Fuck you genocider.

      • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        Bidens gonna win mainly because abortion is on the ballet,

        Roe v Wade was lost under Biden’s administration.

        Biden had control of the house and senate when he was elected and did nothing to protect the right to abortion.

        Democrats have been running on promises to codify Roe v Wade into law for decades. Curiously, they never actually try to make good on it when they get into office on that promise.

        You have to be a grade-A sucker to believe Biden is going to do fuck-all about women’s rights if he gets re-elected.

        • Zetta@mander.xyz
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          3 months ago

          I think I failed to convey my original point. The comment I responded to said this will be the lowest-turnout election in history and Biden will lose.

          Because abortion is actually going to be on the ballot in numerous states I think this may be one of the highest turnouts ever, and I think the people turning up to vote yes on protecting abortion will also vote for Biden, regardless of what he actually does for abortion.

          Fingers crossed if he wins they will actually make it federal law, but that’s not what I meant when I said abortion is on the ballot.

          • AOCapitulator [they/them]@hexbear.net
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            3 months ago

            When you are wrong, when it turns out you’ve been a fool and are more wrong with this prediction than you can currently imagine, will you remember this?

            Will you take a single solitary moment to reflect about the foolishl reasoning that brought you here?

      • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        Biden is losing in polls at around the margin of voters who are deeply invested in what’s going on with Gaza. He’s lost the support of virtually every Muslim in America, and that’s important in states with a lot of Muslims like Michigan and Minnesota. He’s rapidly losing support among younger people, who are also the ones most interested in abortion rights.

        I actually do think Biden may win, but my gut says it’ll be a very funny situation where he wins the electoral college while losing the popular vote.

            • Zetta@mander.xyz
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              3 months ago

              *I said something that triggered the hexbear echo chamber is more accurate.

              Since everyone de federated y’all you probably don’t get many dissenting opinions, and they really seem to cause a reaction

              • Hexagons [e/em/eir]@hexbear.net
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                3 months ago

                I get my dissenting opinions simply by existing in the society in which I exist. The hexbear “echo chamber” as you put it is small and powerless. This place is a tiny refuge, a brief respite from all the shitiness I see in my day to day life.

                Hexbear isn’t an “echo chamber” in the same way the republican media circuit is, because we have to leave it. Republicans never do. They can read articles and watch talking heads and never once be challenged on their beliefs. As a communist, I’m challenged on my beliefs every single day. Most articles I read and most talking heads I watch disagree with me.

                We respond to lost libs like you for a few reasons. One is maybe we’ll change a mind, not necessarily yours but perhaps a lurker reading the conversation. Another is entertainment. It’s really funny when someone wanders in here and is the living embodiment of the memeing we do. Sometimes we want an argument, usually because we’re having a shitty day and just want to be an asshole on the Internet. This isn’t a good motivation and I wish it didn’t happen, but it does. None of us is immune.

                You’re getting responses not because we’re unused to being challenged, but because we want to respond to you for whatever reason. My response here is explaining our inner workings so hopefully you can come away from this thread seeing us as people with ideas that we believe. We haven’t been tricked into thinking as we do, most of us go against the grain of our societies to come to our beliefs. I want to change a mind today, ideally yours, and I’ve chosen a gentle tone full of candor to try to do so. Will it be effective? I have no way of knowing, but I hope so. Please realize we’re not bots or russian agents or trapped in a cult or whatever, we’re humans with thoughts and experiences that have led us to our beliefs.

                • Zetta@mander.xyz
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                  3 months ago

                  Hey, I enjoyed your response and am thankful you took the time to write it out. I agree with your evaluation on hexbear not truly being an echo chamber after you compared it to Republicans.

                  It’s funny you list potential reasons for responding to me because your reasons are just about in line with mine, maybe not in regards to changing your mind because I really don’t think anyone could change any of your minds ever haha, but for entertainment and sometimes just to be an ass.

                  Mainly the reason I interact with hexbear sometimes is because you all fascinate me, our opinions differ so much but in quite a different way vs how mine differ from a maga Republican.

                  I can be a petty person and come off as a dick when I’m speaking with someone who has a different opinion than me on something I’m passionate about, but I truly don’t hold any hostility/hate to y’all. It’s just interesting and amusing to see hexbears responses to things I say, and sometimes enlightening like yours!

              • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                3 months ago

                We don’t have downvotes because it’s a dog-brained way to do discussion. As a result, when somebody posts something really stupid we can’t just downvote you, we have to reply if we want to let you know we think you’re a clown.

              • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                3 months ago

                There are numerous instances still federated with hexbear, there are actual arguments here where people are actually trying to learn. It’s one of the further things from an echo chamber, you can’t even downvote!

                • Zetta@mander.xyz
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                  3 months ago

                  Yes I agree with you now, someone else sent me a good message on why this isn’t an echo chamber. I was also wondering why I didn’t have any dislikes, that explains it!

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                3 months ago

                Lmao at the idea that a bunch of western leftists could ever manage to create an echo chamber. We all get the mainstream news bud, we just have the sense to do a little of a deeper analysis. You are correct though you did “trigger” grillman the users: We get so many dumbass libs that come in with the smuggest of attitudes while dropping the shallowest and most surface-level analyses while believing they’re blowing our minds and it is tiring and infuriating, so users no longer treat such condescention from dumbasses kindly, they instead just give you what you deserve. People here are triggered by dumbasses who love the smell of their own farts.

                Could you imagine users here actually do have access to CNN and the like, so we do actually know of the copium you huff? Seems to me like your kind are the ones that generally don’t encounter dissent, considering the reactions that come whenever users say they won’t vote for a genocider.

                • Zetta@mander.xyz
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                  3 months ago

                  I responded to somebody else in regards to my echo chamber comment, so I’ll just say I have no issue with you not voting for Joe Biden and I never said I did. I just think he’s going to win

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                3 months ago

                Shitting my pants and then commenting on all the people mocking me for shitting my pants “huh must have struck a chord huh must have triggered them huh must have scared the echo chamber huh must have made some salient points” smuglord

              • TheDeed [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                3 months ago

                Honestly this is rich considering that the other instances defederderated because they don’t want to hear a dissenting opinion, not the other way around.

                I think you’ll find that people on here generally love when someone from another instance wanders in lol.

      • UmbraVivi [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        Why are you pretending that Biden isn’t currently in power and hasn’t been in power for the past 4 fucking years? Why has he done jackshit about abortion as of yet, and why do you think he’ll do something once reelected?

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        Not that what is happening in Gaza Isn’t horrible or important but the reality is most Americans don’t care that much.

        I wish no harm on the American ruling class. My enemy is the American people.

      • Greenleaf [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        Legitimate question: is abortion on the ballot in Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, or Georgia?

        Because if not, then it’s entirely irrelevant. Totally irrelevant. As much as everyone talks about voting (or not voting} for Biden or Trump, for the overwhelming majority of Americans who don’t live in a swing state their voting for president is pointless. So unless abortion is on the ballot in swing states it’s a non-factor.

        Abortion does motivate people, and that factors into it if it’s on the ballot in swing states. But when you look at presidential candidates you would be hard pressed to find a candidate with as bad of numbers that Biden has inside and outside of his party. Not even LBJ had as bad of numbers and he dropped out of the race because he knew how unpopular he was.

        Edit: According to this map, the only swing state where abortion might be on the ballot is Arizona; and Nevada if you count that as a swing state.

        • Zetta@mander.xyz
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          3 months ago

          It’s going to be in the ballot in Arizona, I haven’t checked the others

          • Poison_Ivy [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            3 months ago

            Maybe the Dems should get on that then if Democracy is on the line.

            How seriously are you taking this election if youre putting up Biden of all people as the candidate against Trump again and especially now when he is historically extremely unpopular and has a legacy of horrible policies to drag him down further

            Like fuck you man, get a soul.

          • Greenleaf [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            3 months ago

            Right, so it’s only a factor in one of the six states that determine the election. I would not call that particularly determinative for the final result. Abortion will not determine the outcome of the election, but Gaza very likely will. Or said another way, it would be incredibly bad campaign strategy for Biden to rely on abortion to carry him to victory while continuing to help genocide Palestinians.

      • AOCapitulator [they/them]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        Lmao bidens going to win because abortion is on the ballot

        You’re an absurd person, do you know that?

        Do you know that Biden is personally responsible for helping block enshrinning abortion rights into law at least twice?

        Do you even pay the slightest attention to the actions these people take, or do you just cheer and clap while reading press statements and Twitter posts

        Gullible fool

      • Poison_Ivy [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        the reality is most Americans don’t care that much

        But we do. And thats we refuse to vote for genocide enablers but I understand condemning genocide is a skill issue for you

        • Zetta@mander.xyz
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          3 months ago

          Totally fair to not vote for someone supporting something you don’t support.

      • robinn_IV [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        Bidens gonna win mainly because abortion is on the ballet, and yes I will come back to this post when he wins to remind you I was right.

        I’ll remind you constantly when he loses mao-wave

        • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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          3 months ago

          This post made me revisit my first comments of dunks on libs to see what else they have been adamantly certain of, and then oddly quiet about. Found one where some lib insisted Ukraine was gonna break thru Russias defense any day now. 8months ago lol.

      • Zodiark [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        If you come back to do an “I told you so”, you shouldn’t. This isn’t a game. Genocide isn’t a contest of who is more correct or virtuous.

        Just go back to your instance and jerk off with sandpaper, asshole.

      • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        3 months ago

        If Biden wins it will be because he convinced morons like you that “Abortion is on the ballot”. It must be nice to have no thoughts and just repeat advertising slogans. Do you just have “Eat Fresh” playing on loop in your head as well?

        If abortion is on the ballot, then go vote for that actual policy in your state. There is no way to guarantee that Democrats protect abortion rights even if elected, and their track record is piss poor. Electing Biden will do nothing about abortion in individual states, and we know that because he isn’t doing shit about those restrictions now.

        • Zetta@mander.xyz
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          3 months ago

          I mean I’ll be voting for Biden mainly because Trump’s a dictator wannabe (you guys like that right?) and Biden has sorta done an okay job supporting Ukraine with military aid, which I also support. Abortion is on the ballot in my state so I will be voting to support that as well.