- cross-posted to:
- flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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Left Vs. Right is old and busted
Poor Vs. Rich is new hotness
This is not about class solidarity. If he’s right (as in correct) he’s right. To deny that because we don’t agree on eventing is stupid
Especially given that he wasn’t poor
The political spectrum is fake bullshit made to divide the working class. The only ideology of the oligarchs is the acquisition of wealth, and they will assume any political persona in the pusuit of it.
I’d argue that, among the working class, the right wing of the political spectrum represents either the expectation/ambition to gain much more than others, or distrust of the left, commonly driven by following capitalist BS or having certain reservations or misunderstandings.
Love it or hate it, political ideologies exist, and they exist on some spectrum
Like many, he was a right-winger until he became the victim of the right wing. Suddenly he became the most extreme example of the “woke” activists he used to attack.
Your commitment to long-term civilizational success, Elon, is not universally shared
It’s not even the majority position
What you call the “woke mind virus” cares about one thing only: equality
The levelers want to destroy everything because in the rubble we will all be equal
- Tweet reposted by Luigi, worshipping a capitalist 10x worse than the one he shot
Which is not exactly why we should remain in solidarity with those who started figuring something out, not alienate them based on past views.
Give him a bit of time, he already started looking through some of the BS.
Actions speak louder than words.
Dude disappeared for months and had expressed interest in dabbling with psychedelics. He could have easily met people and changed his political compass in that time. He could have completely changed his personality from doing psychedelics. It’s possible that he has a psychological disorder that nobody knew about and he stopped taking meds for. Could be a bad combination of bipolar disorder and psychedelics.
Are psychadelics really THAT powerful?
For some people they can change for the better and presumably cure depression for a few months, for others it can go really badly. If you have an underlying psychological disorder like bipolar, it’s recommended that you don’t do them.
Kinda, yeah.
Any proof that he is right winger, that’s not made by some fundamentalist?
Because last bullshit I read is that he was right wing because he liked technology…
Because last bullshit I read is that he was right wing because he liked technology…
Man, I miss technology being left-wing.
I wouldn’t say “right-winger” - he was apparently a “rationalist” aka gray tribe, a loose philosophy that places rational thinking above ideologies.
They are very right wing lol
Don’t think so. “For the greater good” - heavily associated with left wing - is a rationalist take.
I read he complained about “woke” a lot.
Idk what’s more woke that offing a CEO.
Not offing CEO
Heart attacks have probably killed more CEOs than anything, but I wouldn’t call them woke.
I complain about Woke a lot and I’m a dyed in the wool leftist to be fair. There’s a broader spectrum of opinion out there.
*on american scale. Most american lefists wouldn’t look out of place in russian coalition of right forces.
What I read is his friends identified him as economically leftist, but took issue with identity politics
Which depending on context could be as simple as “I dont care ill mind my own business you mind yours.” which I suspect is what most folks opinions boil down to.
Identity politics will be the downfall of democracy if Democrats don’t stop that bullshit
The problem with that is that oppression injustice, and inequity are often based on a person‘s identity
Still do it, just don’t base your entire platform on it. It’s not that hard to understand but most democrat politicians can’t
Agreed there, democrats continue to refuse to challenge their economic masters and try to use identity politics as a sop
Why do you blame Democrats for identity politics and not Republicans for passing laws based on identity politics?
Because that’s what Republican voters want and that’s enough for them. They vote on spite and hate and the GOP feeds them it
we’re all communists after all.
He nixed a deep right oligarch because they were killing people.
I don’t know what label you really want to assign to that, But it current it doesn’t seem very Right Wing thing to do
In American politics left and right have no meaning anyway
Yeah you’re kind of need to clarify these days whether they’re the Right looking for upper middle class tax breaks, or the right that’s looking to use the police to hunt non white people to extinction, not that there’s not a significant overlap of those two circles but…
That is why we need to start using the more specific libertarian right and authoritarian right of the axis spectrum and stop using the regular left-right spectrum
Personally, idgaf what his alignment was, I know his action’s alignment was chaotic good.
He rolled 20 on ambush
Luigi Mangione is the median American voter
They’re confused because they still believe the dominant divide in US politics is liberalism v conservatism. It’s not, and it hasn’t been for some time. Increasingly, even if they lack the exact language to explain it, voters do not identify foremost as Democrats or Republicans, progressives or traditionalists, or even left or right. They identify as pro-system or anti-system.
See the problem for them is, this isn’t a political issue, this wasn’t about some political rhetoric attacking some mysterious foe, this was a human struggling to relieve their pain because of a corrupt system designed to squeeze every last penny from its victims.
You can’t pit us against each other over this, you can’t create boogeymen over this, because you are the boogeyman this time, but we’re not afraid of you anymore, we know how to scare the boogeyman now.
Luigi was loaded, he probably could have easily paid off all his own medical bills without insurance. Luigi’s dad is the current head of Mangione Family Enterprises.
I think he did it because he thought he could get away with it, and maybe he will.
Luigi isn’t Muad’dib
His motivation was to merk someone just to get away with it?
No, not to get away with it, because he could get away with it.
His motivations weren’t “they ruined my life.” Thats such an obvious lie. Idk why everyone has to have their own Luigi Fanfiction.
Oh okay, thanks for clarification
I think that the left/ right spectrum is outdated, or at least the definitions we give to each.
I mean, originally the left/ right divide was about whether to keep King Louis XVI around or to have him beheaded.
The spectrum we know as a communism vs capitalism scale really was useful in the cold war when those were the two sides of a bipolar world. When we still use this as the measuring stick, things become super confusing in the 21st century. Our world is no longer a communist vs capitalist struggle. Russia and China aren’t communist like the Soviet Union. The United States isn’t the same democratic state that it was in 1960.
I don’t know what our new spectrum is, that’s going to be the research of the next great political scientist, but I do think the old tools we’ve used are no longer helpful. Some are saying “woke vs unwoke”, some are saying “populism vs. globalism”, and some are saying simply “chaos vs order”. Perhaps it’s a little bit of all, or perhaps we should throw spectrums out altogether. Either way, if we use old tools for modern problems, we will end up confused. It’s like how jazz is seen as a super complex genre- it may simply be because we still use the music theory of 18th century European composers to try and understand Miles Davis. Of course it’s going to be a wild ride.
On the other hand, if we continuously move goalposts, we risk changing definitions so much that being anti-slavery would be “explicitly left”, and as most people tend to stick close to “center”, whatever it could be, this can really change the political landscape.
The sooner we realize the “left vs right” battle is a facade put up to distract and divide us, the sooner we realize what terrifies the upper class: we’re much stronger together.
Unless you’re a Nazi, then you can get fucked.
Bernie said it in 2000. The right uses single issue tactics to divide us. The real war is against the rich and poor.
Bernie has been speaking truth to power on this longer than I’ve been alive, which is why the ruling class killed both his presidential campaigns.
Now, we’re seeing the logical conclusion that plays out when people feel like there’s no way to win this fight at the polls.
Amusingly, this kind of thing makes me think about gun laws.
Everyone believes it’s impossible for gun control, but I would bet my life that if the rich got too unsettled we would see some swift and heavy restrictions set up.
It’s all class warfare. Always has been.
This is part of why I’m a pro gun leftist.
No, police arrest and kill rich black people in the US too.
https://apnews.com/article/business-nancy-pelosi-congress-8685e82eb6d6e5b42413417f3d5d6775 (Pelosi defends lawmaker stock trades, citing ‘free market’)
Our political “left,” ladies and germs.
Exactly their point, it’s not left vs right, it’s the ruling class vs the laborers
pelosi ain’t left at all. not by a long …road
We have maybe 2-4 individuals in all of Congress, none promoted within the DNC as that is determined by how well you “fundraise,” aka demonstrate you’re willing and able to get the biggest bribe checks, that might actually hold some economically leftist ideals.
They are hated and undermined by both parties harder than either party fights the other. The DNC and leaders like Pelosi and Schumer are far more at ease with Trump being President than They would with AOC.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/aoc-and-nancy-pelosi (Nancy Pelosi ‘Making Calls’ to Undermine AOC’s Bid for Top Oversight Role)
Behold Democrat leadership’s priorities a month before Trump takes office, kneecap the farthest left member of her chamber yet again.
But how will red Fascists justify their governments if they can’t claim the people wanting freedom are evil?
What of course doesn’t disagree any bit to what you said. But expect some coordinated and well founded opposition every time you try to claim “left” and “right” are bullshit.
That’s true, but the opposition has shown their strategy already: to redirect public unrest towards marginalized groups and social policies, and away from the bourgeoisie. The result is right-leaning people getting captured in a funnel that starts with “society is too woke” and ends in full blown fascism.
So how do we counter it? By maintaining a grassroots effort to bring people out of that funnel by showing worker solidarity and uniting against the ruling class.
If you push someone away because they voted for the wrong candidate or don’t agree with you on some social cause, some fascist talking head on YouTube will be right there to swoop them up.
If you push someone away because they voted for the wrong candidate or don’t agree with you on some social cause, some fascist talking head on YouTube will be right there to swoop them up.
I feel that about my older boomer relatives and friends - they are very right wing, but they have more in common with leftists than the true interests of the Republican Party, and if they’d just stop believing dumb shit, they will be ready for a change (of whatever form that may take). They are also firm belivers in the second Amendment and drive large trucks. I wonder where the right will land on gun control if, heaven forbid, copy cat CEO killings occur.
We’ll see if they fall in line or if shit gets real, I guess?
Your right wing friends and family - their lived experience has proven that the system doesn’t work for them, and they’re rightfully pissed off.
My Trump loving relatives used to be Bernie supporters. If you can speak to what they already know - that our country is failing them and we need real change - they’ll realize that we all have a lot more in common than the establishment gives us credit for.
Exactly, this isn’t about left vs right. He could’ve been a flat earther and the rest of his actions would still be valid.
And the landscape of US politics is so fucked at this point that which “side” somebody is allegedly on based on donkeys and elephants, or whose podcasts they listen to, or who they retweet is really only an entertaining starting point to determining what the hell their views actually are.
I’m sure plenty of “right wing” Republican voters actually would agree with us here on a lot of things once you broke down individual topics – possibly with a little bit of rephrasing of things, and after you punched through the layer of bullshit, lies, racism, identity politics, and incessant fearmongering over non-issues that the GOP slathers all over everything they say nowadays.
Liberals and conservatives generally actually agree on these two core concepts, vis-a-vis:
- We want the government to provide for us what we think everyone ought to deserve to get, and
- We want it for “free.”
I’m sure plenty of “right wing” Republican voters actually would agree with us here on a lot of things once you broke down individual topics
I wouldn’t be surprised. USSA, unlike Europe, is politically homogenous. Instead of 100500 different parties it has only right wing and more right wing party.
And there was video demonstrating what you said.
Pretty famously the Affordable Care Act polls pretty well with both parties whereas Obamacare polls very poorly with Republicans. One would find that odd considering those are two different names for the same thing
Propaganda is a powerful drug.
I had an acquaintance try to tell me that Presidents didn’t use executive orders before Obama. He was mad because Obama “started the whole executive order thing”.
It took me a minute to process the level of stupid that it takes to actually believe that considering,
1.) The US constitution grants the president broad discretion over the executive branch.
2.) An “executive order” is nothing more than a directive from the president to an agency or department under the executive branch.
3.) Nearly every president since Washington has issued executive orders, although they weren’t called “executive orders” and did not have any sort of numbering system until 1907.So basically he was mad at Obama and every president thereafter for checks notes doing their job.
Same folks will be like, x issued more orders than any other president, but also excitedly talking about record revenue, turnout, etc. As if the stuff they agree with grows in a vacuum away from the stuff they disagree with.
Voting for Kamala Harris to stop Trump: “The Democratic Party didn’t provide good enough options!”
Making a class hero out of a spoiled rich kid: “We’ll take whatever we can get!”
Let’s be real: he will be remembered for his actions, not for his background.
In other words, “B-but…”
Taking out the evil CEO of a multi-billion dollar company built to take advantage of people makes him less of a spoiled rich kid than some random cunt getting on the internet and spouting his opinions like anyone gives a shit.
I don’t care if luigi is a martian, he’s a hero in my book
