I cannot think of a bigger cuck move than bending over to court bad faith actors and suckling at king maga’s sweaty little man nipples for $$
You’re on a website where people come out of the woodwork to defend “ethical polyamory” and the biggest cuck you can think of is a CEO trying to curry political favor with the current US president?
I hate everything about this comment, but you’re not wrong.
I hate this, because the idea comes from Hermetic spirituality, but from a very cherry picked version of it that basically says “Be as shitty a person as you want, give into your natural inclinations and vices”
I know because I’ve seen this A LOT!
Because the actual Seventh Principle of Hermeticism does not say to do this, it actually says to balance the masculine and feminine within yourself to acknowledge both as being geniunely within you. It also encourages that the two shouldn’t be seen as opposites but rather two endpoints on a vast spectrum, the same way we see hot and cold.
But sadly too many “Gurus” somehow warped this into
“Reject femininity, see it as weakness, and be a massive chauvinistic asshole.”
When that couldn’t be further from what it’s saying.
So I watched the entire three hour interview.
Technically speaking, Zuckerberg emphasizes the need for balance. He on multiple times either emphasizes that both men and women should feel comfortable in corporate environments, and explicitly says something like “there has to be a balance” on at least two occasions.
The issue is that other parts of the interview don’t really match that idea of balance. Zuckerberg and Rogan spent like a third of the entire interview talking about bro culture stuff. I’m not even talking about “bro culture in the context of corporate America”. Rogan spends like a full ten minutes lecturing Zuckerberg on the proper way to bow hunt.
Overall I think the media is focusing outrage bait while ignoring the serious implications of the interview. Zuckerberg is clearly lobbying the Trump administration to prevent meta and other US tech companies from being subject to EU regulatory security. It has serious implications both as a consumer and in terms of geopolitics.
I think what most companies actually need is more QA energy 😅
The gender identity of your work places energy is not the damn problem. Raise the damn pay. People will work in a sewer if you paid enough.
People working in a sewer should be paid the most.
I think meta pays pretty well
Zuck: “we never let gender play a role in our hiring process.”
Also Zuck: “yeah, we need to hire more men.”
It’s the old “Male is normal, Female is special” logical fallacy, he only wants to hire people who’d get hired under “Normal” circumstances
I don’t think he even cares. He wants to appeal to MAGA’s bosses.
In 4 years, if Dems take back power, he will make a vibrant speech about the need for diversity and to tackle fake news.
Agreed, he’s just picking which side he thinks is currently winning the cultural war… and “Woke” being universally considered a bad thing does point to the Right winning that war, but… there are Leftist Arguments against Woke as well so not really.
(Replace the word “Woke” with “Rainbow Capitalism” and you have the Leftist Argument against it)
He knows he’ll never make up the loss of subscribers on the left since he’s burned those bridges so he has to double down on the far right to carry his platform.
This way he gets to compete with X for a race to the bottom and see who can gather the most shitbags to support their plateauing businesses.
“he has to” does he though? He has enough money for him and his entire lineage to live lavishly for eternity. He can dip out today and stop working forever, relax on a beach, and disconnect from the world like Tom from MySpace did.
He’s not being forced to do anything.
Listen to the latest zuck episode of jre and he actually sounds pretty reasonable. I know that’s crazy but if you have a couple hours you can actually listen to the dude.
Edit: just to be clear I’m not saying I love the guy, or even like him. But listening to him talk for 2 hours he is atleast semi intelligent and is trying to keep free speech alive.
sitting through any length of jre is going to either waste your time or expose you to hours of garbage.
why?
Watched the episode. Completely disagree. His whole schtick was “yeah moderation is really hard yet super important to get right, that’s why as a cost cutting measure we are curtailing the entire operation lol.”
He explained it wasn’t even about the cost. Yes it’s expensive but he willing to throw billions at it for years. It’s not working and that’s the problem.
They are unable to read every single thing posted. So they use ai. But ai makes mistakes. So you can let the ai be more lenient and say ban accounts that it is 50% sure is a bot. But then the ai bans a lot of real accounts by accident. There is no winning and they were fighting a loosing battle constantly with no rock solid answer. Idk the answer to it but neither does meta. It’s not their fault a third of the population of earth uses there services everyday. It’s a lot to monitor and every step they take to make it better the bots/badguys take another step and are always on step ahead. It’s a losing battle for everyone involved except the bots. So they are gonna try leaving it up to the individual to figure out what’s what. It’s that or they try to be mommy and daddy and treat their users like babies.
It’s not how much money you’re pouring on it. It’s not that “it’s not working”.
Fake news enraging idiots who will vomit their hate all over and get into clashes is the highest earning formula for the business. And in a time where the new ruler of the USA is himself a big fan of hate speeches, while the EU and some other countries are ready to hammer Meta over their poor moderation, it’s also a strategic political move.
So the idea is to allow fake news and hate speecher while making big claims about freedom of speech and appeal to MAGA’s kindergarden bosses in hope they’ll defend him against evil regulators.
That’s all it is.
That’s why everybody should migrate to smaller platforms - The internet is decentralized by design and people use these stupid sites that swallow personal data and regurgitate propaganda.
Just regulate that they’re legally responsible for the content they host. If their platform is too big for them to police then they need to shrink it or shut it down.
And you believed him
About what? He’s not saying anything unbelievable.
“It’s not about cost.” Running an imperfect system expensively is not grounds to gut the system entirely.
I don’t believe it’s not about cost and in my opinion you’re silly to believe it. You fell for propaganda and even worse it was propaganda on Joe Rogan of all places lmao.
Okay agree to disagree. I think meta is a company/business and obviously is looking at cost vs impact etc. And they deemed it to expensive to continue fighting a losing battle. If you don’t like it don’t use meta which I’m sure you don’t. But I don’t blame them at all for coming to this decision and I don’t think they are responsible to teach you right from wrong either. Like I said it’s not their fault a third of the world uses their services everyday. They made a great social media site and its become one of if not the most popular on earth. But that’s all they are, a social media business. I wouldn’t blame a smaller business that came to similar conclusions that just impact less people. It happens all the time it’s just I think meta gets all the attention because it’s the biggest one. But it’s still just a company making money at the end of the day.
Zucklefuckle regularly lies and shifts about as much as a chameleon. His goal is to raise shareholder value and nothing more. He’s not worth listening to.
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lol no. Anyone who has paid any attention to Zuckerberg over the last 15 or so years will tell you the exact same thing: The dude is a lying opportunist who will say and do anything to bump his company stock. Musk and or Rogan are not your friends, they are feeding you bull shit.
I wasn’t talking about musk. Rogan is just a doofus with a show that I happen to enjoy but he himself will tell you he’s an idiot when it comes to almost anything that doesn’t include comedy or MMA of which I am a gigantic fan of both those things. Also yes, zuck is a business owner and nothing else. He wants his business to be the largest/most successful one, like every other business owner on earth. He just happens to be at the top. But I would expect him to be ruthless when it comes to running to his business, we live in a capatalisic society unfortunately don’t hate the player hate the game. I don’t think zuck has any personal responsibility to teach users right from wrong. He only had the reposibility of keeping his company making billions of dollars.
Rogan is just a doofus with a show that I happen to enjoy but he himself will tell you he’s an idiot when it comes to almost anything that doesn’t include comedy
And yet he routinely makes declarative statements like “climate science is people making you feel bad about your impact when we don’t even understand the science behind it”. He’s a right wing shill who consistently presents far right ideas like they’re truth, but then tongue in cheeks self deprecates, like it cancels out the massive soap box alt right haranguing he just did. He also consistently platforms far right racist, science denying fascists and then nods along while they drip venom in the ear of his brain-dead audience.
Zuckface’s refusal to take any responsibility for his company has gotten a lot of people killed all in the name of shareholder profits. Stop licking his boots. He has thrown you to the wolves along with the rest of us and you’re defending this dude who doesn’t even care who you are or that you even exist… seriously, why? You should also take the hint: A lot of people here, the people who are not being naive and see who he is, disagree with you.
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The Billionares are not your friends.
The rhetoric of the right has shown time and time again that they will use disinformation and misinformation to conform their gullible audience towards whatever views suit their needs. Humanity continues to confirm his remarkable susceptible to this practice. This form of deceitful expression is not the ‘free speech’ a society should tolerate and why fact checking entities need to exist with the power to shutdown this discourse.
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That would mean listening to Joe Rogan, and unfortunately I’d be too busy setting my hair on fire before I ever listened to Joe Rogan.
I actually have listened to Zuckface on a podcast once because I had never heard him talk. He definitely does some good masking as being a human person. And I think if he wasn’t evil he might have some interesting ideas, sure.
Shows me how smart you are. I don’t agree down vote! You didn’t even watch thing or reply with a reasonable comment. You’re not willing to. You are just as bad as the right wing you hate.
If you’re not gonna listen to it then just say so. You’re part of the problem and shouldn’t even reply since you have no clue what you are talking about. You didn’t even listen to thing your commenting about. Do you not see the problem.
Well no I’m not going to listen to 3 hours of intellectual dark web bros. But I did read this wonderful Bluesky fact check thread of what Zuckerberg had to say, which is much more what we should be listening to, instead of Rogan shooting the shit about how climate change isn’t real with Mel Gibson . https://bsky.app/profile/mmasnick.bsky.social/post/3lfgh7dbglk2d
Mel Gibson is insane Joe was trying to convince him of evolution and climate change.
Edit: see what you did right there that’s called misinformation.
Um Mel Gibson sat there and said ivermectin is the cure for cancer and old Joe agreed. That’s actually going to kill people. Please stop listening to Joe Rogan.
No he wasn’t, his statement was about disliking being made to feel bad about climate science he doesn’t understand. You’re clearly deep in the Joe mental gymnastics brain rot.
Maybe, but he’s damn sure cucked. Dude 100% has a chair in the corner of his bedroom facing the bed.
This is dystopia. The people in control of society pushing insane spiritualist cult mentalities to obfuscate their role in a genocidal empire.
Is Zuck getting divorced?
I don’t think so, but don’t let that stop you from shooting your shot if your believe you can make him a happy man.
There has got to be better sexbot models out there.
LOL I would never! Unless it’s to get close enough to et tu brutus him
Dude loves Romans that much he would die proud I think.
Most companies just need more ppl that actually work rather than doing politics and profiting off of the 30% working personnel.
nah, they just need to fire some useless managers and reroute the pay to the workers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTdOHBIppx8
When I think of masculine energy I sure as hell don’t think of Marky Z.
That over sized black T and gold chain is so absurd. Maybe I don’t follow enough influencers, but when did alt right culture appropriate last decade’s hip hop style?
He seems like the type that ever since he was a kid would full on cry and make everything miserable for everyone until they just gave him his way to shut him up.
Steering the helm of a massive advertising company that misleads and manipulates users does not seem masculine to me.
Yeah, a tom of Finland character he certainly is not. Like he’s definitely masculine, but more masculine [pejorative] in the vein of a man having a midlife crisis and deciding to get into a sad pantomime of youthful masculinity. He definitely doesn’t seem the type to do hard labor to provide for his loved ones or to spend his evenings in a shed tinkering on his projects. His masculinity is not the presence of the traits our society positively associates with men and masculinity or of those that those who are attracted to masculinity find attractive or endearing, but merely a starker absence of the positive traits associated with femininity or neutrality and an absence of the negative traits of femininity.
Love the Tom of Finland reference I bet it went over most peoples heads
Thanks, I’m a woman who has friends who are leather men so whenever I see these guys going on and on about masculine energy my mind initially goes to leather men. Because the reality is these guys don’t want masculinity for its own sake, that’s leather men, or whatever nick Offerman is doing or wherever else you see people who are masculine because they like it. These men see masculinity as a vehicle for power and staving off their fears of aging. They clearly fear that they’re insufficiently masculine and rather than asking themselves what the root cause of that insecurity is and trying to be the person they genuinely want to be (which may very well mean they take testosterone supplements and get into martial arts) they’re just going to act like a 14 year old who thinks that going full silverback will get him laid, respected, and happiness.
I recently finished the fifth book of the stormlight archive and I really respected the way it dealt with toxic vs healthy masculinity and so that’s actually something that’s just been on my mind a lot lately.
So yeah I guess I’m just not impressed by this performative Rogan style masculinity, if you want to show me how manly you are act like someone with a secure and healthy relationship with his masculinity because as a grown ass adult this Zuckerberg bs is fucking sad
maybe you should start with humanoid energy you fucking lizardbot
Had a ex-friend who went real hard last year about feeling his masculinity has been challenged. Went deep into the manosphere language. He was extra annoying. Every convo was about how he, a white man in America, was being repressed. He started labelling random shit as masculine/feminine. Got sick this and stopped inviting him.
A few months later, I learned the divorce was finalized and he’s been sending me invites to hang with him in his bachelor pad. Nah dog you suck now.
yeah and i bet that shit was the reason for the divorce. i got a friend who lost her husband down the right wing rabbithole and now she’s processing the grief of losing someone she loved to something so goddamn stupid
This could have been me. For the longest time I was watching right wing YT channels without really realizing it because they were hiding their messaging well under legitimate critique of the movies and shows I was no longer enjoying. My girlfriend and I got into multiple arguments over this and I could tell that this was something we’d never agree on, which makes sense of course. Eventually I managed to pull myself out by unsubscribing from these channels ocne the messaging became a lot more clear (around 2021, you can probably guess why) and since then things have been much better between us and in general.
I have found the subtle messaging in tutorials for software. They’re good at hiding it.
Yeah it’s honestly insane how much of it there is. Even channels that appear to be completely innocent at first can suddenly start veering in this direction. I remember watching someone like CinnamonToastKen when I was younger and it always used to be very generic fun for everyone content. But the last few years I started catching on to him saying more and more right leaning, conspiracy theory type stuff.
He made comments about the US (where he no longer even lives) keeps giving money to Ukraine instead of fixing their own problems, the “stolen election” and of course about Trump winning again. I really don’t understand why you have to make statements like that, you (on average) alienate about half of your audience by saying stuff like that. But oh well, a quick unsub and moving on.
They may alienate half of the audience, but the other half starts dumping truckloads of money on their doorstep.
and they are locked in thanks to the power of sunk cost fallacy
I’m proud of you for realizing something was off and correcting course. I know how easy it is to get sucked into that garbo. I got sucked in myself when I was a young teen. I genuinely don’t remember how I pulled myself out of it, but I’m glad I did because I’m positive my life would be miserable if I hadn’t.
i’m proud of you for waking up
Maybe a weird thing to ask, but could you provide an example video/channel? I find these kinds of things very fascinating.
Like I said in another comment, Cinnamontoastken is one of them. Other ones (with varied levels of “hiding their messaging”) would be:
- Critical drinker - he’s more in the camp of acting like it was a joke / satire butl it really wasn’t. Also, he made his own “good” movie which sucked ass :D
- Nerdrotic - he’s someone I turned away from very quickly, he doesn’t hide it at all and is constantly racist, bigoted and discriminatory. He kinda serves as a lightning rod for the others, as in “oh this guy is so bad but these other ones are okay”.
- Oompaville - bit of a different genre, mostly react content, he always seemed like a classic freedom lover Texan but seemed like a decent guy. Kinda went off a cliff once Trump got re-elected with his snarky comments and comment section.
- Baggage claim. Seemed like a slightly more feminist conservative but went off the deep end around the time of the election, spreading misinformation and diving into conspiracy theories about RFK and the deep state.
I’m sure there’s others but those were the ones I remember the most.
Edit: I just remembered another one, Asmongold. He’s close to being the worst one. He hides his opinions behind reaction content and video games, always acts like he’s a “neutral fencesitter” but deep down loves it that Trump won again and was full-on conspiracy clowning about covid vaccines and the election being “stolen”.
It’s also very likely the divorce was the reason for the behavior. Getting lost in the sauce of that nonsense is a tragic but not unreasonable reaction to the trauma of divorce, or just being hurt by a woman. That ideology and the people who make money from it prey on weak, lost men for a reason. Thats what its designed to do.
You could be mixing up correlation and causation. The divorce could have happened for any number of reasons and the ensuing loneliness and alienation could have been what led the husband to seek validation in manosphere bullshit
you may be right in this specific case. when i said “i bet” i was taking a gamble. i based my gamble based on the sequencing of events i watched my friend go through. i’m sure you’re right that it’s played out the opposite direction, and that even for my friend her husband becoming authoritarian leadind to their divorce made her husband even more entrenched in that mindset.
I bet that is really fucked up because you might spend a long, long time trying to convince yourself that he would change back or just be less of an asshole. That’s a special sort of grief where they are still living but you’re mourning who they used to be.
He started labelling random shit as masculine/feminine.
FYI: This is totally normal in France.
Any romance language country, really
TIL Klingon is not a romance language 😭
Germany woke af by having a gender-neutral pronoun already
What does that have to do with a situation that’s not in France?
It’s a joke about le vs la
I’m whooshing pretty hard because I still don’t understand what the joke is, but I’ll just assume that’s on me :)
Thanks for trying to help me understand!
French version of the article “the” changes if the noun is either feminine or masculine. Every noun in French is assigned to be masculine or feminine.
For example:
The book “le livre” would be masculine. The bookstore “la librairie” would be feminine
I do understand that, it just seems like bringing up a random fact that has no bearing on the actual discussion and seems like it’s missing some additional context to actually be funny.
But, again, totally accepting that I’m the one it’s just not clicking with :)
Thanks for trying though, my skull must just be too thick!
had ex-friend
B-b-but ToLeRaNcE!!!
Similar situation here (there is more than one situation, ofc), but wifey’s along for the ride too, and not in a trad wife way (they’re late 60s in age). Left them out of the pals’ xmas dinner because it’s become unbearable for everyone else.
It’s no fun losing decades-long relationships over whatever “this” is that’s happening.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.
What’s weird about this broader “conversation” on masculinity is I feel more masculine than ever, despite not giving a flying fuck about any of this.
I never really struggled with it except as a teen, but the older I get the less I care.
—
I still say we made a mistake with communicating to men about feminism. We kind of left people who are terrible like Andrew Tate to dominate the conversation when people shut down men’s rights groups as de facto misogynistic, and now here we are.
What’s weird about this broader “conversation” on masculinity is I feel more masculine than ever
Same. The more I read stupid quotes from the Tates and Musk’s of the world, the more I feel like I’m doing something right with how I’m living my life, raising my kiddo, and engaging with my community.
Between that and a wider understanding/acceptance of neurodivergence, I’m feeling pretty comfortable in my own skin for the first time in a long time. And I’m ready to fight for women, minorities, and the LGBTQ+ communities to feel the same way.
Dudes getting divorced and then hating women are really telling on themselves.
He’s right about one thing: There is a serious lack of actual masculinity among our leaders.
Most public figures who try to present some form of “masculinity” are just desperate and petty, willing to sacrifice nothing to earn their status, and eager to degrade others to look better by comparison.
A real man produces more than he needs, but takes only that much and ensures the rest goes to those who are less able to sustain themselves. They protect the defenseless, elevate those who are ignored, and invest in a future they won’t personally live to enjoy.
Show me a real man among you. It’s not femininity keeping you from finding one. It’s your own greed and hubris.
When I was in the military, the best Marines weren’t the ones who could lift the most or run the fastest (though sometimes they did), they were the ones who stayed up late writing up their junior Marines for awards, the ones who skipped their own lunch to teach their squad or platoon how to perform better, and just generally the ones who went out of their own way to improve everyone else’s well-being around them, and all the while keeping their mouth shut up how much they were doing for everyone else.
The whole master-apprentice thing is not really found in America anymore. It is lowkey there in academia, but there is so much admin work that even good PIs struggle. I have not really seen it in my little private industry experience. And I have no public experience to comment.
It does exist in some trades still but that’s also becoming more rare. My father was a farmer and he was always willing to be a mentor to guys he knew who wanted to get into that industry and was willing to help out his neighbor farmers if they needed help. When he died about 10 years ago, all the local farmers came out to help and they helped my family harvest his last crop at no charge to us. Wish that was the way it was in other private sector industries.
This comment makes me want to read “the way of kings” again…
Kaladin is a G. Currently on Oathbringer. I enjoy a good fantasy series, just hate when I run out of books.
Real men are also able to access their emotions, express their needs(both emotional and physical), develop and share empathy, and nurture deep relationships within their community.
Though i would argue none of what either of us said has to do with gender.
Relentlessly locking your own humanity away behind a strong man facade built on shame is one of the biggest reason these fuckers become so hateful and make “manliness” seem like such a putrid prospect.
A real man produces more than he needs, but takes only that much and ensures the rest goes to those who are less able to sustain themselves.
A big part of the issue is men constantly being told that they are responsible for everything. So this attitude would only make the problem worse.
This is why a positive kind of masculinity also needs to reject patriarchy and capitalism.
“Producing more than you take” doesn’t have to mean money. (Though I did mean money in my original comment, cuz Zuck is a greedy monster.)
Just listening to people more than you demand to be listened to. Doing chores that you know your friends and family hate. Sharing your knowledge. Cooking. Fixing things. There are so many ways you can contribute to your group that don’t take money, and don’t even take much time.
Being financially responsible and helping people when you can is important, don’t get me wrong.
But seeing your worth in purely financial terms is really limiting and unhealthy for the individual, and also tends to create perverse hierarchies inside of families.
Right but take what you just said to it’s logical conclusion. Why should only men have those responsibilities? All you’ve really done is create a different, nicer patriarchy, that still expects men to conform to specific gender roles and still expects women to conform to specific gender roles. Consider the inverse, all the people who physically can’t produce more than they require to survive, who need additional attention or care, through no fault of their own. Can those people not be men?
You’ve described just a generally good person, and realistically you’ve described more women than you have men. The goal should be to get rid of the idea that certain responsibilities are reserved for certain genders completely.
Those aren’t unique to men though (except your last paragraph), how is that not general advice?
I think our advice to men should be more:
“Your problems matter”
Or
“Standing on your own two feet (and autonomy) is especially important to most men, so we should change our economy to support that”
I’ve noticed most advice given to men usually boils down to more responsibility or expectation instead of actually giving them something like male specific support programs.
there’s no such thing as a “real man”… it’s all just roles society has placed upon different genders….
A real man produces more than he needs
And I’m an imaginary man producing just what I need. 👻
The answer is often more complex
The answer is clearly 42i
Either this comment is also misogynistic as all hell, or my mother was very masculine.
Masculinity isn’t just for men. Just like femininity isn’t just for women. A healthy person has a mix of these qualities, along with many others that we don’t tend to align with a specific gender.
When I say “a real man”, I don’t mean it as an objective assessment to stick a person neatly into one of two piles. That’s not how gender works, and it’s not how being a person in general works.
What I mean is that if you’re indulging in behavior like belittling other people for fun or “cool points”, or using your power or physical strength to get what you want, and calling that “being a man”, then your idea of manhood is a mirage. If you want to aspire to something based on your male gender identity, aspire to humility, vigilance, and service to others. Those are great qualities that anyone can have, but they’re especially important for men if we’re gonna have a respectful and productive society.
(Edit: I didn’t downvote you btw. I thought your comment was pretty reasonable and mild. But I did wanna take the opportunity to elaborate, because this topic can be complex and emotionally charged. We all have a lot of baggage when it comes to gender, and it’s hard on the internet to develop rapport with each other.)
It is still misogynistic to say that women who manifest those behaviors are particularly masculine. Those are adult human behaviors.
I don’t know a lot of adult humans who behave that way of either gender.
There is a serious lack actual masculinity among our leaders.
The problem is many people hear these words and instantly jump to toxic masculinity. Which you’re obviously not advocating for, but neither of us are “many people”.
Masculinity has been defined as toxic by default for many.
Yup. It is in most or at least many cases.
I wish I were able to achieve even 0.01% of this, I am just born unable.
It’s ok. It’s going to suck. Real men and women could provide for you. Not that you’re not a real woman/man, but in context.
Thanks, but sadly I think there are no real men/women near me.
I assume by more masculine energy, Zuckerberg means:
- More posturing by Matt Walsh, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson and Donald Trump, the US exemplars of manhood.
- Trolls, more trolls, trolls trolling trolls. People fucking with anyone else that makes them uncomfortable.
- People boasting about how rich they are, how fast their car goes, and how many women they bed. Comparisons. Leaderboards.
- Doxing. So much doxing.
- So much AI porn. So much futa AI porn.
- So much misogyny. All the misogygy. Al Misogyny. Misogyny leaderboards.
- Tons of hate speech against the targets of the week. Immigrants, trans folk, Jews Arab Muslims, libs (not liberals, neoliberals or left-wingers, libs )
Essentially Zuck wants Facebook to become 4chan/b… or 4chan/pol, only where everybody knows your name.
Probably. As opposed to what masculine used to mean and should mean:
-
Taking responsibility for your actions
-
Taking leadership if you see nobody else is going to
-
Treating others with respect
Of course, in modern times, we’ve realized this has nothing to do with masculinity or femininity and rather with one’s role in society. If you want to be respectable, these are just some of the things you should be doing.
Why are those considered masculine traits?
In the 1980s (when women just got to have their own bank accounts and credit cards, and we just invented no-fault divorce) there was still a lot of prejudice that women were too driven by emotions. My dad (a boomer) still believes this to this day.
The thing is, in the 1970s, we switched to two-income houses rather than the one-income houses of the 1950s. (Shit was evil then too, but that’s a different rant) and so women were required to do all this adulting that they allegedly couldn’t do. In the 1990s, women were regarded, at least by Gen-X and younger to be able to adult, and of which taking responsibility, being able to lead and / or follow without being a dick, and respecting others. If there was anything different, it was that men were expected to have higher incomes and be able to put more into rent, utilities, dating etc.
(I was dirt poor, but a solid friend so we went out less and ate in more. The VCR / DVD played the same role as Netflix in the Netflix-&-Chill paradigm.)
The way I put it came from the 1983 techno-thriller, Wargames, cut and pasted from a different thread, the man code was this:
🔸️ DON’T launch the LGM-30 Minuteman nuclear-tipped ICBM. Evar. Even if the President of the United States orders you to. (He’s bluffing.)
For most people it was allegory, but for some people, it’s a literal thing (also, I know of USAF missileers who admitted they would not launch even under orders, and they’ve been kept in the same post even during the cold war, so go figure.) Incidentally, women were assigned to missile posts, in 1977 in the USAF, so it seems that the US government trusted women with the decision to launch a nuclear weapon well before US culture got the memo.
Nowadays, we see masculinity as it’s expressed by politicians and pundits reminds me of Joffrey Baratheon insisting I am the king which I was specifically reminded of when Trump was strangling his own Secret Serviceman screaming I am the fucking president!
Any man who must say “I am the king” is no true king. – Tywin Lannister
I wouldn’t trust any of these bros not to abuse their lovers and kin, let alone with an LGM-30 Minuteman nuclear-tipped ICBM. But it seems seventy-seven million Americans trust that capacity to Trump.
My teachers were fierce about our capacity as fourth-graders to take responsibility seriously. Also to pronounce nuclear as NOO-klee-ur, so I had to cringe all the way through the George W. Bush era. It’s worse in the Trump era, watching my elders acting like overgrown toddlers.
Because in a traditional patriarchal society, good and honorable traits are expected of men while women are expected to be inferior to men.
However as we’ve realized that women are equal to men and should get equal rights, many men have become whiny bitches who yearn for the so called good old days. Said men don’t seem to realize however that “back when men were men” refers to standards they themselves don’t fulfill. They just want the gender inequality back and that’s it.
I suppose it doesn’t have to be exclusively masculine. I’ll take what I could get if it could coerce some of these “must be manly” folks to actually aspire to good attributes versus what they seem to think masculinity means right now…
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I have to ask… do people even in that sphere who take that shit seriously actually consider Ben Fucking Shapiro (of all people) to be especially masculine??
You mean the man who can’t make his wife wet, and loudly proclaimed to the world that women don’t get wet down there?
And Jordan Peterson who fell into a coma from eating too much meat
It already is. It’s a wasteland of boomer MAGA bullshit. And they all hate him anyway.
