Climate crisis goes out of the window , lets do war , lets blame Russia and start WW3
Ah yes, war in Ukraine, very relevant to the climate crisis. I think she’s gone the “Neil de Grasse Tyson way” of being famous for a thing and just hopping onto whatever is tangentially related and popular right now. Disappointing, but what would you expect from lib group that thinks they invented striking, and have no tangible demands? She’s not relevant and the only reason libs think she is is because she’s a white European who obeys the law. Go ask what they think of the (still very mild) Extinction Rebellion.
She’s not relevant and the only reason libs think she is is because she’s a white European who obeys the law
Well put, comrade. Never paid attention to her even when she first came up, because that was my immediate impression. She’s the literal embodiment of white, middle-class European bourgeois sentiment.
As for mixing climate activism and the Ukraine war, I’ve actually seen quite a few speeches and contributions by climate-focused orgs on peace demonstrations outlining the absurd damage of militaries and this war specifically on the environment. It is possible to combine the two to make genuine anti-capitalist, anti-war points. She simply chooses not to.
Go ask what they think of the (still very mild) Extinction Rebellion.
Just look at their response to the “Last Generation” (misguided libs gluing themselves to streets to form human roadblocks; damaged some paintings). German politicans literally compared them to the fucking RAF lmao
She’s the literal embodiment of white, middle-class European bourgeois sentiment.
She is the child of famous Swedish actor Svante Thunberg and opera singer Malena Ernman (who represented Sweden in Eurovision 2009), so when she got famous I suspected it was some kind of stunt pushed by her parents as, like with many rich and privileged people, they probably had plenty of contacts on their deck to be able to garner media attention. It doesn’t surprise me that she and her family would be the milquetoast white liberal Swedes that they are.
Celebrity business in Europe is basically hereditary at this point.
Wow , now it all seems clarified.
It was especially (if morbidly) fun to watch that development in postsocialist countries where actors and singers tried to gap the century of development of celebritism in just two decades. They had everything, but faster: faster money, faster careers, child actors, feudal-level nepotism, and of course faster drama on sex, drugs, marriages and divorces etc.
Honestly i’m pretty much surprised they didn’t incested themselves out of conventional DNA chains in single generation.
Do you mean she didn’t magically shoot to environmental stardom merely by the force of her ideas, oratory, and passion? Colour me greenwashed.
As for mixing climate activism and the Ukraine war, I’ve actually seen quite a few speeches and contributions by climate-focused orgs on peace demonstrations outlining the absurd damage of militaries and this war specifically on the environment. It is possible to combine the two to make genuine anti-capitalist, anti-war points. She simply chooses not to.
Fair point. I guess what I tried to say there is that the war (and specifically Ukraine continuing and eventually winning it) is rather tangential to fighting the climate crisis and an odd cause to put in your famous climate organisation behind uncritically. Imagine being so European that human lives are less relevant than “holding Russia accountable” on damages to local ecology.
Totally with you there. It is only tangentially related. I just wanted to point out that principled, anti-capitalist environmentalists can and actually have to be active in the peace movement. You can use the popularity of this issue to agitate against war. People do it. Thunberg just refuses to. But not because her main focus is climate change, but because she’s a dishonest, bourgeois white liberal.
I think she is not popular in the global South.
Southboi here, yeah she isn’t. Only people who even bother talking about her are terminally online fascists. Or just silly memes. At most the defence for her is against people demanding human rights abuses against her, bigotry, lies or stuff like that, not her movement. Sadly the internet is hosted in the North so we gotta learn these Swedish unpronounceable names to debunk imported nonsense conspiracy theories sometimes.
I am also from global South, I am not defending her anymore as she lacks a principle stance against imperialism and Nazism. She is same along Stephen King and others who are blind Russophobic.
I want to see her justify and who will she blame for the destruction of the pipeline and dam attack and nuclear plant attacks by Ukraine and the delivery of depleted uranium ammunition to Ukraine
All of those were Putin, didn’t you know? He personally delivered the depleted uranium as the True President of the USSA.
u.s. is still the most likely to have blown up Nordstream.
What really throws me off is all the right wingers and fash that have like, actual rape and murder fantasies of her. Like that’s a thing that was going around those circles and now she’s buddying up with them? I think that’s confirms for me she isn’t just misguided by the media but under their control all along.
I don’t trust any activist from white countries. They don’t understand a thing about imperialism . Maybe they want to fuck us for eternity.
Actual good activists exist over here, but they won’t get the attention Greta gets. When employees of our party’s free healthcare clinics travel to Cuba to exchange ideas of socialist healthcare, it will not reach the media. When we invite Chen Weihua to speak on China’s climate strategy, so that we Belgians can learn from it, it will not reach the media for obvious reasons.
Greta is a white European who preaches non violent ‘ask nicely’ change. She gets the attention.
At the very least, the philosophy is often, ‘we’ve got to fix the problem for us first; everyone else can wait’. Nah. If we’re gonna do this, we’re doing it for everyone at the same time. If that’s not possible, we’ve got to focus on the most oppressed first. They’ve had to wait too long already for wealthy white westerners to get their shit together.
I’m going to be honest, that’s just blatantly racist. Great massive overgeneralizations as Dank points out.
But I will agree that media funded activists like Greta are terrible.
Racism against white people does not exist because racism exists as systemic oppression and white people are not targeted whatsoever by it. Some random guy saying the word cracker online does not hundreds of years of enforced discrimination make.
Yeah… systemic racism…
Just because there’s no systemic racism against whites doesn’t mean that you can’t be racist, stereotypical, or a jerk towards them on an individual level. That not how the concept of racism works.
This is also how inter-minority racism works as well. Black people in America hold no systemic power over Asians or Hispanics, but I have heard things so vile that you would think they were said by a Klan member.
It’s the society that holds the power in the form of systemic racism, but that doesn’t stop the individual from being a horrible person or racist.
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That is disgusting and vile.
Hey guys look, another person who doesn’t understand the difference between racism and systemic racism and conflates the two into one idea.
If you honestly don’t think it’s not possible to be racist towards white people, you’re delusional, and probably racist yourself.
Honestly this type of ignorant rhetoric is half the reason you see white people being radicalized to the right, because they’re being gaslit. It’s incredibly destructive and you should educate yourself before saying stuff like this.
Hey look, another settler with hurt feelings. Motherfucker they’ve been chalk-outlining us for a hundred sixty years now; plus that if you wanna go back to the slavery that stripped us of our names, cultures, religions, and languages. tl;dr the tears don’t mean shit to me. Not in the face of everything already lost. If they get radicalized to the right, they were always gonna get radicalized; I’m not losing any sleep over them beyond the lock checks.
I agree, and that’s horrible, but that doesn’t justify being a jerk to people on an individual level.
Also that’s not how brainwashing and radicalization work at all. Do you think children are born racist, Nazis, capitalists, or horrible people? Do you think the children of the Hitler Youth were destined to be Nazis? Or maybe the concept of societal indoctrination works to radicalize and brainwash individuals?
Or is it the systems in place in society that reinforce those ideals and viewpoints?
Do you think children are born racist, Nazis, capitalists, or horrible people?
I think that there’s fundamentally no difference between being ‘born that way’ and 'the parents indoctrinating their young from literal birth’. It ain’t ‘systemic issues’ that make Becky down the street pick up her phone and call the cops on any subject-of-empire out for a walk; it’s in-house, in-race teaching. This isn’t ‘the system’, this is individuals making choices under an empire that always favored them with the sweat of everyone else’s brow. So forgive me if I look at the displaced weight of hurt feelings, and find the displaced weight of literal thousands of bodies just over the last twenty years to be a little bit heavier.
You’re projecting. Just because you’ve been hurt by systemic racism doesn’t give you an excuse to be racist on an interpersonal level. Your rhetoric that those white people were always going to be radicalized to be racist or members of the far right is INSANE. You can pull up any example of ex-klan members who got help and reformed themselves and are even advocates against hate, to prove this isn’t true. A lot of people fall into toxic worldviews because of the conditions they’ve been surrounded by. You’re doing the same conflation of environmental factors as a means of inherent essentialism thought does, when you hear someone say “Black people are inherently more violent because they commit more crime per capita in the US”. The sooner we treat everyone as real human beings, the better, and the sooner everyone can get past the racist and ignorant crimes of the past.
Also I’m not sure why you’re calling me a settler. Would your opinions of what I’m saying be different if I was Black? Latino? Asian? What if I’m actually White? Would you think less of my opinion because I’m White? That’s by definition what Racism is, my friend.
You should really self reflect on what you’re saying.
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“I hate whites” “I’m a proud racist!”
“If you don’t agree, then you’re not a comrade!”
Do you hear yourself???
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Nevermind you were being serious. Jesus.
Why bother pretending to care about positive intersectionality at that point.
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Don’t think no one saw that before you deleted that. That was disgusting.
Also who said we were all American? Why does White default to American?
Don’t overreact, I don’t hate white people , it is just they generally live in their own “white bubble”. Left in global North countries are pretty lame. I mean why Aussies can’t protest against US regarding Assange? They won’t, they think he is a Russian asset. Only global South with the help from China and Russia will crush the global North once in for all.
What an bizarre fantasy to hyper focus on and base your ideal around. You care more about this “Global War” then literally anything else, like that’s the end all be all.
Also Russians are “white” you genius. Half of Latin America could pass as “white”, there are “white” Turks, and so on. What I’m trying to say is that your preview of “white” and whitenesses role is devoid of reality.
Also why is the proletarian of another nation something to be “crushed” like an insect? Why are they, and their purposefully weak movements the target of your ire? And yes there are morons that believe the lies of the system, but how does that even apply to what you’re saying in the slightest?
Russia is a slavic nation, they are generally hated by Western Europeans because they think Russians have mongol blood or they think Russia is more Asiatic than Westernised europe. I don’t hate white people btw but yeah if we global South have to survive from climate crisis , we need to reorient the global power from West to Asia (maybe China). I don’t think western Hemisphere will give up their power so easily, you can go on blabber about kind West is but I don’t think that way. Also, I don’t think western countries can liberate out themselves. We can’t die because of your nonsense and petty e left.
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Lets not go around calling people orcs, or dehumanizing a group of people please. Also lets not go around advocating genocides
You should be ashamed to call yourself a leftist
She’s either compromised, or was always a flytrap. I shudder to guess between the two.
I bet on the latter. It’s just too much to be organic. A cutesy white teenage girl, chastising the world with teary eyes from UN podium? Come on. And don’t get me started on the content of the speech itself. It all just screams “emotional manipulation” to me.
Meanwhile, actual environmental initiatives and results were ignored by the media.
Her book seems to inspire people but if you take a quick look, it’s just more liberal individualism. ‘No one is too small to make a difference’, just don’t think about organising to make a real difference.’ Same old critique of Engels and Lenin: radical politics censored by silence.
Isn’t she 20 now?
Or thereabouts, I wasn’t keeping up. But she was a teenager when she first hit the media. Also, forgot to mention the choice of country of origin. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that she’s from the Nordics - not just for racist reasons, but also because those places are wanked non-stop as some shining beacons of human rights, democracy and even “socialism done right”.
It certainly draws in the right kind of teary-eyed liberal.
Pretty much, she’s a perfect poster boy for the controlled opposition climate movement.
My suspicions started when she constantly omits one of the biggest polluters in the world from her critique: the Pentagon.
She at least criticized capitalism, and part of me doubts that she was always a flytrap.
Lol, and then she blamed China for highest carbon emission. She is a western idiot nothing else.
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It’s not even that, per capita China is far from the biggest polluter. If you put Europe + north America together to reach around the same population, we pollute much more than China by far
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I agree with this and also think we should frame it carefully when taking with liberals.
One of our other talking points, to challenge the idea that individuals recycling their cereal boxes won’t do shit for the climate, is to move the debate from the consumer side to the production side. This is difficult if we then point to China’s emissions and blame western consumers. (I mean, it’s hard not to see it as their fault.)
I’m unsure what the answer is, although I have three interconnected suggestions:
- It’s the western imperialists who controlled the move of western factories to China. And even though China now has a slice of the pie, the same forces that are happy to run China’s environment are the same people who still control production and distribution over western markets: western imperialists.
- Chinese production is a problem, but the CPC is on top of things and is transitioning to a green economy.
- Western consumers are to blame because they are happy to be bought off. The same factors that mean they ignore working conditions in the global south also make them happy to ignore environmental degradationb in the global south.
Just some initial thoughts.
Yes, but it’s incredibly hard to explain to people not knowing what colonialism and neocolonialism are. Point 2 is usually dismissed by simply don’t beliving it because China bad, and 1st and 3rd while being acknowledged in theory are immediately also handwaved by “and now China is the capitalist/colonizer/polluter”
Hard agree. And when you put it like that, it is very different looking at the consumer/producer within e.g. France and the consumer/producer within China. Because that’s the thing with China: they have the production but not the consumer (proportionately speaking).
I never said that she wasn’t ridiculous for blaming China. She is.
She started a global environmental movement that includes direct action, civil disobedience, and groups that are explicitly anticapitalist. She’s done more to disrupt the capitalist machine than most off y’all, and she’s barely in her 20s. Y’all really need to pick your enemies differently
No we definitely don’t need to pick our enemies differently than cracker liberals chosen by the bourgeois establishment as figure heads to defang global movements, especially not when they’re now misappropiating climate movements to support the warmachine of Western imperialism.
I get it, and I agree in some ways. I don’t think her or FFF are gonna be the break with imperialism. BUT, it has garnered revolutionary potential. I myself am part of the Greta Generation of naive and propagandized liberals that thought a couple million youths on the street every week could change something. This was a reality check, all of us disillusioned with the system and years of non-progress. Some of us retreated into complicity, but most of us adopted deeply anticapitalist sentiments. Also, many are still in school and have little potential for theoreticaldevelopment. I really think we need to give it some years to see the fruits of this disjunction.
If you’d notice my username, 68 and the years that followed, were carried by a similar development that started with a naive youth movement coming to terms with reality. Similar developmentts can be seen now.
Yes, but people only progressed from those naive, liberal tendencies towards revolutionary action because of revolutionaries attacking them not because principled communists were praising the white liberal.
We criticize people, parties and organisations when their stances are wrong. Whatever good they might or might not have done in the past is no grounds for refraining from attack.
If there’s one thing that’s more than abundant in this world, it’s people defending milquetoast, apologetic liberals. We as communists don’t need to beat that drum too, but have to offer a different tune.
Again, I don’t disagree. Criticism is warranted and necessary. I will still refrain from attacking the movement as a whole, because it has been, unediably, a crucial aspect of the revival of the left in the imperial core among the younger generations. This is precisely why the movement is most viciously attacked by the right, because they are afraid not of some harmless marches, but from the conclusions that the participants will gather. This is why I hope for the organization to flourish, because the conclusions that individuals will come to is always the same: revolution or capitulation. But getting people to this point is hard, especially in this scale, and has not been achieved in any form in the imeprical core in the last 40 or so years.
So I guess to conclude this hottake, I mean to say that Greta, FFF, or whatever similar organization, while most certainly not in any form revolutionary, is nonetheless the ground upon which we can flourish. Or, of anything, have pulled millions of young people to the left while the trend was drastically going in the other direction. All we have to do is drag them a little further, but some work has already been done for us. This is why I wish FFF etc all the best, despite not being aligned anymore in any form.
This is why I hope for the organization to flourish, because the conclusions that individuals will come to is always the same: revolution or capitulation.
Yes and liberals like Thunberg are actively working so people avoid the conclusion is revolution. Those that came to that conclusion did not get there, because principled communists were defending white liberals, but because they offered an alternative and a systemic critique to the shortcomings of liberal climate movements.
Revolutionary organisations can work on the grounds of liberal organising and even with liberal organisations, even on the grand strategic level as in the Russian, Chinese, Cuban and many other revolutions. But they decidedly do not do that by merging with them or refraining from citicizing them when they’re objectively wrong and to be criticized.
Communists don’t need to do the work of the liberals, the liberals are doing that already. The communists need to do the work of the communists, which is attacking liberal ideology relentlessly and structuraly, offering alternatives for the contradictions within liberal ideology. You don’t get someone from FFF to a CP by defending the liberalism within FFF.
I mean to say that Greta, FFF, or whatever similar organization, while most certainly not in any form revolutionary, is nonetheless the ground upon which we can flourish
Yes, but that is only so if we provide and attack them from the left, not if we defend them. If we do so, there’s no meaningful difference between us and them and then ultimately there’s no movement from them to the left.
Some of us retreated into complicity, but most of us adopted deeply anticapitalist sentiments.
Yeah, yeah, sure; we’ll see about that when y’all’s generation actually has fully-developed frontal lobes. Til then, Ion’t believe that shit for a second-- 'cause what I remember of the years that followed '68, the Woodstock generation became fuckin yuppies and sold out their whole shit wholesale.
yeah, sure; we’ll see about that when y’all’s generation actually has fully-developed frontal lobes
I think she’s just a liberal who doesn’t understand the underlying dialectic in play, and as someone revered by liberals, they ask her to go on a trip to support Ukraine, she shrugs her shoulders and says sure why not. I’d like to think it comes from ignorance on her part but it doesn’t matter.
Of course she is, but being in the topic, no way she didn’t saw for example Hersh report, yet she still didn’t condemned USA but USA’s enemies. At this point she should be losing the benefit of doubt.
*Kiev
Yeah , thought of using the official name used by the chinese media too.
It is generally seen as courtesy to use the own names/official versions of place names, but it is equally acceptable to use the traditional language imports. For example, in polish names “Kijów” or “Turcja” or “Pekin” are still routinely used, and despite both Ukraine and Turkiye insisting on using their versions.
Alright, kids, I hope this closes the case for Greta.
Yeah, I kept wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt but she’s old and involved enough now for her “ignorance” to be her fault.
Honestly, I’ve come to hate the ‘wait and see’. I’m not taking a single motherfucker under the age of like… 27 serious ever again tbhwu
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Dude’s thinking “this should be good for like two more months worth of doomed armored vehicles, right?”
I wonder what they’d talk about. Everytime I meet one of our officials or one of another party, it’s just some basic ass conversation about meaningless things (unless it’s in an official meeting about something). Football, holiday, family etc. I wonder if important figureheads like they are do the same.
Probably. The main thing is the photo op. They’re not asking her for advice about how to fix the environment.
So did that get her taken out of mirotvorets? does the state department know she went to meet Zelensky?
That or Zelensky himself will be put on the list too.
Hmm wonder what she thinks of Nord Stream incident? Coward who refuses to call it out or war-monger that could give less of a fuck?
She thinks Russians have to be kept at bay. It’s a survival war for the total Western civilization 🤣. Or Putin will march to sweden 🇸🇪
Even she knows she is out of her element here. Body language suggests she isn’t comfortable.
I think we should be really careful with this kind of comment. Assuming things from the body language of an autistic teen in an official picture with old government officials, even if they’re a counterproductive lib, is really not fine IMO. There’s plenty to criticise about her and her actions without going there.
She is 20 years old, I wish people would stop using the cop out that she is a child or a teen because of her small figure (not saying you necessarily did that but I’ve seen that a lot), but I get what you mean with her being autistic as it can definitely be harder to depict the body language.
Oh yeah, I it was already weird for people to excuse her (lacking) political worldview when she was 16. Makes even less sense now. But from a social aspect, it’s important to remember that she’s still a rather young neurodivergent woman in a political environment that usually doesn’t receive either of those, despite liberals claiming to be so progressive. I mentioned her age there only because she’s surrounded by people who might have twice her age so it’s natural for her to look out-of-place. So many comments against her person (and not her bland ideology) can at best fail to take this context into account and at worse be malicious.
It’s always best to take care with that and be aware of it. I really wouldn’t enjoy people assuming they can read my body language in a picture for instance.
I wasn’t criticizing her appearance.
I was saying she seems to know what she is doing isn’t right. But fair, could be an inaccurate assumption on my part, and she may indeed think what she is doing is somehow okay.
Oh yeah, I didn’t mean to say you were criticising her appearance or anything of the sort. It’s just that us brain weirdos tend to look weird in pictures (and out of them) in ways that might look like some kind of “body language” to the neurotypical observer. Even “normal” people have that happen to them a lot too. It’s generally hard to parse such things from a picture, which is why I felt like pointing that out.
I know and am also not what people would call normal. I have panic attacks on the regular in crowds and can’t even grocery shop during certain hours of certain days because of it. Also been involuntarily hospitalized a few times as well. Since I’m also a USian this stuff costs me between $10k - $20k USD per year, the variation depending on how good my insurance is amd how bad a given year is for me.
I’m not the flavor of neuro diverse Greta is, but I try to be aware of these things.
Greta, I’ve noticed, exudes a lot of confidence and poise when she is in her element, which is the environmental activist sphere. As I suspect she should be since she is actually very well educated in. When she speaks or poses for pictures or whatever while doing things related to these matters, she is clearly confident.
But she isn’t all that knowledgeable about imperialism. Or geopolitics. Or socio-economics. Or the NATO/Russia/Ukraine relationship.
So here she is, likely having already spent several hours already with these people, who would’ve been talking to her about shit she knows next to nothing about, appearing uncomfortable in the photo shoot. Because she is out of her element and knows it.
This is dissappointing, hoped she wouldn’t go this route.
